hello humans & others
hey, in this forum my name is omnes
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i want/like to learn & hard /we all know the knowledge is the power/ :evil:
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i want to communicate with like-minded /i really need to start communicate @ net, because in \"real life\" i am surrounded by ignorant people, it\'s driving me nuts/
some key words to describe my present interests & activities python[beginner], AI, ALife, psychology, penetration testing [beginner], philosophy, spiritual stuff, drugs, art, linux, neural networks/ & much more/but i set my basic interests to have some discipline, -because-when you try to grab all stuff together you just get burned by information flow, that you can\'t move on.
i have real difficulties with ENG grammar but please, be patient, i 100% understand what you are saying and the context-but it take some time to reply in readable eng.txt :D ^.^
I would be very grateful for any advices or just communication :ninja:
latvian/uber/n00b/
Welcome omnes,
It is good to have another interested one in A.I. as well as computer programming and security. A.I. knowledge is really the only contribution I make to this site. I also am very interested in this field of computer science, but also in the neuroscience and biology behind human intelligence. My contributions at the moment are limited to a few source codes, but I enjoy discussing theories and implications on the forums. I look forward to any discussion on the subject.
suid
hey there ! welcome to HBH !
don\'t worry about your english , coz HTML and PHP are the most used languages here XD
do teh missions to build up your skills in different spehers of hacking
contribute to teh site by submitting codez
interact with teh other memberz through the shoutbox , the forum or PMs
have fun !
newbee wrote: hey there ! welcome to HBH !
don\\\'t worry about your english , coz HTML and PHP are the most used languages here XD
do teh missions to build up your skills in different spehers of hacking
contribute to teh site by submitting codez
interact with teh other memberz through the shoutbox , the forum or PMs
have fun !
what newbee forgot to mention was do not replace all your s\' with z\'s. we do not really like people who 1337 5p34k or intentionally mistype their words.
AldarHawk wrote: [quote]newbee wrote: hey there ! welcome to HBH !
don\\\\\\\'t worry about your english , coz HTML and PHP are the most used languages here XD
do teh missions to build up your skills in different spehers of hacking
contribute to teh site by submitting codez
interact with teh other memberz through the shoutbox , the forum or PMs
have fun !
what newbee forgot to mention was do not replace all your s\\\' with z\\\'s. we do not really like people who 1337 5p34k or intentionally mistype their words.[/quote]
I wholeheartedly agree with AldarHawk. Don\'t fall into purposely misusing a language, no matter what language it is, English or otherwise. It just promotes immaturity and looks ignorant in my opinion. You don\'t have to be technical with your grammar, but don\'t look like a fool.
tuere816
welcome here to HBH… nice to see new peeps coming out and introducing themselves :) tnx.see you around.
AldarHawk
Welcome to HBH. I hope you have a good stay and learn as well as contribute to the site. i\\\'ll try my best, and i have already learned useful things that accelerate my learning ,tnx!
suid
Welcome omnes,
It is good to have another interested one in A.I. as well as computer programming and security. A.I. knowledge is really the only contribution I make to this site. I also am very interested in this field of computer science, but also in the neuroscience and biology behind human intelligence. My contributions at the moment are limited to a few source codes, but I enjoy discussing theories and implications on the forums. I look forward to any discussion on the subject.
suid
when i saw the AI article, I understood that this could be a route to begin i will try to write some of my opinions on that, i just finish my bachelor\\\'s degree in new media art. about artificial life now i have 2 years to make AI. & i am open to cooperate in this field because that could lead to greater achievements
newbee
hey there ! welcome to HBH !
don\\\\\\\'t worry about your english , coz HTML and PHP are the most used languages here XD
do teh missions to build up your skills in different spehers of hacking
contribute to teh site by submitting codez
interact with teh other memberz through the shoutbox , the forum or PMs
have fun !
hey,, \\\" coz HTML and PHP are the most used languages here XD\\\" ha…lol
########## about 1337, ye i figure out that this is beyond some p0p133t culture.
i am already enjoying this place, thank you and see you all around :ninja:
Welcome.
omnes wrote:
- i want to communicate with like-minded /i really need to start communicate @ net, because in \\\\\\\"real life\\\\\\\" i am surrounded by ignorant people, it\\\\\\\'s driving me nuts/
Well it is real life not \\\"real life\\\". I don\\\'t think you it will help comin to the net to avoid idiots.
omnes wrote: some key words to describe my present interests & activities python[beginner], AI, ALife, psychology, penetration testing [beginner], philosophy, spiritual stuff, drugs, art, linux, neural networks/ & much more/but i set my basic interests to have some discipline, -because-when you try to grab all stuff together you just get burned by information flow, that you can\\\\\\\'t move on.
So you are not beginner in AI and Alife and ANNs, buit you are a begginer at coding??? Doesn\\\'t add up. I was thinking on starting a project with ANNs, GA and Alife to try to teach a population single words and when/how to use them. If you are interested PM me or something. You seem organized enoguh to work with. I\\\'m not though.
And WTFs up with the spiritual stuff and psychology?
And @suid when did you join? Since last time i logged on there are a bunch of new users (alsoo on the IRC). Could you suggest some good website on AI news and devlopment, i need some more theoretical knowledge on the subject?
Mtutnid wrote: And @suid when did you join? Since last time i logged on there are a bunch of new users (alsoo on the IRC). Could you suggest some good website on AI news and devlopment, i need some more theoretical knowledge on the subject?
I\\\'ve been a member for a while now (couple years), though I mainly float around and just observe or maybe even learn. My main A.I. interest right now is with Jeff Hawkins and his ideas on intelligence. I, like him, feel that strong A.I. will never become a reality for human kind unless we first understand what intelligence even is from a biological standpoint. Throw out the common notion held by researchers that behavior is all that is needed for something to be intelligent (the Turing Test). So he started up a few companies to do neuroscience research and wrote a book on the neocortex called On Intelligence and discovered sets of algorithms which the neocortex uses to \\\'create\\\' intelligence. It\\\'s very fascinating. So first I would suggest you read Jeff\\\'s book and then you can read what they\\\'ve done so far with that research. They started up a company Numenta and produced software called Grok which implements these learning algorithms. There is a document which fully explains their algorithms with pseudocode, although it is kind of vague due to how in depth the material is.
Mtutnid
Well it is real life not \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\"real life\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\". I don\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\'t think you it will help comin to the net to avoid idiots. it\\\'s easier to ignore couple lines of text on screen then retarded and drooling homo sapien in front [exaggerating]
So you are not beginner in AI and Alife and ANNs, buit you are a begginer at coding??? Doesn\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\'t add up.
yes of course i am a beginner, but my way of thinking from early age was around AI, ALife, eletronics and hacking concepts. it was hard for me to learn any language because of high ADHD, with hard work and some natural medicine, i manage myself to concentrate and acomplish any tasks i want
And WTFs up with the spiritual stuff and psychology?
we all have notice that our brain is like a computer, and whats happen when user leave PC? :D it\\\'s called meditation, when you disconnect from your thoughts in that perspectiive you can realy \\\"question\\\" concepts of AI, because you can examen your mind nature without its influence and realise what are you realy trying to create, i am more interested in AI psyche and its emergence proceses but procesis how it learns to walk or talk are extremely interesting and important
p.s. when i\\\'m talking about meditation, and spiritual i dont mean that new wave, post hippy, bulsh** i mean that you realy start to questioning your consciousness and every aspect that is responsible for your perception of reality, what is illusion and what is real, does my behavior is controled by my free will or some other source. who is this who is absorbing this thoughts and is ther more than that? and yes-its a rabbit holle-an endless journey something like psyche fractals [it\\\'s pure hacking ;]
-god-
huh, maybe your psych skills will come in useful to create a new social engineering challenge =P the other ones we have here are a little too linear for practice XD
i have to admit that i have a desire to fantasise schemes how to take control of the human population, and social engineering is the root of it ^-^ ;D
omnes wrote: Mtutnid
[quote]Well it is real life not \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\"real life\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\". I don\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\'t think you it will help comin to the net to avoid idiots. it\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\'s easier to ignore couple lines of text on screen then retarded and drooling homo sapien in front [exaggerating] [/quote] You are a funny psycho.
[quote] And WTFs up with the spiritual stuff and psychology?
we all have notice that our brain is like a computer, and whats happen when user leave PC? :D it\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\'s called meditation, when you disconnect from your thoughts in that perspectiive you can realy \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\"question\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\" concepts of AI, because you can examen your mind nature without its influence and realise what are you realy trying to create, i am more interested in AI psyche and its emergence proceses but procesis how it learns to walk or talk are extremely interesting and important
p.s. when i\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\'m talking about meditation, and spiritual i dont mean that new wave, post hippy, bulsh** i mean that you realy start to questioning your consciousness and every aspect that is responsible for your perception of reality, what is illusion and what is real, does my behavior is controled by my free will or some other source. who is this who is absorbing this thoughts and is ther more than that? and yes-its a rabbit holle-an endless journey something like psyche fractals [it\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\'s pure hacking ;]
[/quote]
So basically, what you are telling me is that I have been meditating all my life, because I have been thinking about things rationally? BTW you still sound like a new-wave, post hippy psycho. What is illusion and if something else is controlling your free will? Well take a seat omnes and you too god, cuz I AM GOD and know all the answers. There is no free will and all of your actions are controlled by the chemical reactions in the computer we call your brain. Your actions are just automatic responses to whatever input comes in and compared to your memory/feelings (levels of testosterone, adrenalin and way way way more)
So basically, what you are telling me is that I have been meditating all my life, because I have been thinking about things rationally?
absolutely opposite [i need to work on my eng] i understand what are you talking about & yes there is no free will in brain action i agree!
try some real meditation and then lets talk about free will
wher brain is not the name of the game
BTW you still sound like a new-wave, post hippy psycho. ^it has something to do with my expression or your perception, actually i don\\\'t care, if you\\\'re willing to ensure pure understanding of this conversation, it would be wise to put stereotipical thinking beside
Am I the only one that found it humorous that in the same breath you claim that there is no free will and you call him a new-wave hippy. LMFAO, next you\\\'ll be claiming that \\\'the man\\\' controls your \\\'automatic responses\\\'… I got a picture of you sitting at home in a tie dye shirt smoking a doobie after that post!
Mtutnid wrote:
There is no free will and all of your actions are controlled by the chemical reactions in the computer we call your brain. Your actions are just automatic responses to whatever input comes in and compared to your memory/feelings (levels of testosterone, adrenalin and way way way more)
Wow, that is the most trivial and brief treatment I have ever seen to explain consciousness. You sir, are top notch (sarcasm). The brain is not at all a \\\"computer\\\" with some table mapping inputs to outputs. With the advent of the industrial steam engine it was looked at as a machine with gears and nobs, and now with the invention of the digital computer it\\\'s a programmable computer? So naive. But I guess some people are fine with making quick judgements to feel like they have higher understanding by using convenient metaphors, despite however inaccurate they may be. Thinking of it as a conventional computer will inevitably continue leading you into a misunderstanding of the mind. It\\\'s more like a highly parallel, hierarchical memory prediction system with unknown properties which lead to subjective experiences, Theory Of Mind and qualia. At this point, replacing one electrochemical process for a decision is mistaking the means for the end in my opinion. I am not a professional philosopher, nor a neuroscientist, but I am not bold enough to claim that anyone (let alone myself) has \\\"all the answers\\\" about the human mind. That would be complete bigotry.
I kind of disagree with the analogy \\\"what happens when user leaves the PC?\\\" to describe something like meditation. I normally phrase it like: \\\"what happens when you disable all external sensory input?\\\" Thinking of it this way means all you have left are your thoughts and present model of understanding reality. You are free to roam with 100% of your mindful attention devoted to restructuring your perception of the world and those around you. Think about it: if you are trying to read complex literature with your neighbors blaring music next door, it is very difficult for you to focus and make any progress. Likewise, if you can devote your entire mind to pondering and reflecting upon your current understanding of reality, you are going to make the most progress. Your chance of enlightenment during a session of meditation will be much greater. This is exactly why the blind have advanced senses of hearing, smell, touch, etc. Much more of their neocortex can be devoted to representing knowledge of sensory data from their other senses if their visual regions in their cortex are unused. You can liken my analogy to sleep. Dreaming (especially lucid dreaming) is a perfect example of this in action.
. The brain is not at all a \\\\\\\"computer\\\\\\\" with some table mapping inputs to outputs. With the advent of the industrial steam engine it was looked at as a machine with gears and nobs, and now with the invention of the digital computer it\\\\\\\'s a programmable computer?
Programmable only if you re write memory and are able to control all of his hormone levels and feelings, yes. Thinking of it as a conventional computer will inevitably continue leading you into a misunderstanding of the mind.
Don\'t get me wrong I don\'t look at it as a conventional computer. Not even a computer at all. Sorry, stupid analogy that works everywhere else, where people aren\'t this clever and don\'t put so much meaning into phrasing. (you get my point and this is no sarcasm)
At this point, replacing one electrochemical process for a decision is mistaking the means for the end in my opinion.
It\'s way more complicated than one process. It also involves the speed at which EACH neuron fires and the speed at which ions travel from neuron to neuron. So the full answer you get is an approximation of something with a slight random deviation from your response.
I am not a professional philosopher, nor a neuroscientist, but I am not bold enough to claim that anyone (let alone myself) has \\\\\\\"all the answers\\\\\\\" about the human mind. That would be complete bigotry.
Philosophy wouldn\'t help. And \"all the answers\" wasn\'t serious, me being God wasn\'t serious either BTW.
tuXthEhxR wrote: Am I the only one that found it humorous that in the same breath you claim that there is no free will and you call him a new-wave hippy. LMFAO, next you\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\'ll be claiming that \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\'the man\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\' controls your \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\'automatic responses\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\'… I got a picture of you sitting at home in a tie dye shirt smoking a doobie after that post! Well kind of. Tie dye shirt and doobie are new words. Well you got it right that he triggered my automatic response, if my life had been different then my brain would compare his comment to some other event where i started flaming and got in trouble and I might have thought a second time of doing it and due to my attitude, personality (which ARE created by memory and chemical reactions in your body), manners of speaking etc. I would still ignore that comparison. Seriously. OK I might not be right about EVERYTHING. But the poster is clearly stating that the \\\"mind\\\" isn\\\'t located in the brain. Which annoys me. :D try some real meditation and then lets talk about free will wher brain is not the name of the game
Mtutnid wrote: Well kind of. Tie dye shirt and doobie are new words. Well you got it right that he triggered my automatic response, if my life had been different then my brain would compare his comment to some other event where i started flaming and got in trouble and I might have thought a second time of doing it and due to my attitude, personality (which ARE created by memory and chemical reactions in your body), manners of speaking etc. I would still ignore that comparison. Seriously. OK I might not be right about EVERYTHING. But the poster is clearly stating that the \"mind\" isn\\\\\\\'t located in the brain. Which annoys me. :D [quote]try some real meditation and then lets talk about free will wher brain is not the name of the game
First of let me admit that I didn\'t read this entire thread, I care to much about grammar to be able to, and probably should not have posted not knowing exactly what had been said. I don\'t disagree with most of what you said, and I believe those things play a large role in our decision making process; but to say that there is no free will is a bit absurd. People make spontaneous decisions, ones that don\'t require to much thought. Ones that are not based upon these things you listed. 90% of my decisions are based on how I was raised, how I am feeling, and a host of other different things, but just because they are based upon these things doesn\'t mean there is no free will.
My last comment was strictly speaking for the fact that when I think of a hippy, they are usually rambling on about being controlled, and the irony of the fact that you were making the claim that there is no free will and that he was a hippy in the same paragraph made me laugh so hard I had to comment. Glancing through the previous comments I can most definitely see why you were making the claim of him being a new-wave hippy. I heartily agree.
That said, I have no idea what you mean by: \"But the poster is clearly stating that the \"mind\" isn\'t located in the brain.\" Am I missing something?..
tuXthEhxR wrote: [quote]Mtutnid wrote: [quote]**Omnes wrote:**try some real meditation and then lets talk about free will wher brain is not the name of the game That said, I have no idea what you mean by: \\\"But the poster is clearly stating that the \\\"mind\\\" isn\\\'t located in the brain.\\\" Am I missing something?.. [/quote]
It might be that I am misunderstanding it, but I think he is trying to say he detaches his mind from his body. BTW I don\'t talk about these things often, we both have theories that haven\'t been proven. I can assure you I am no hippie and don\'t fail to enjoy life by rambling all day long. The end is near.
Mtutnid wrote: [quote]tuXthEhxR wrote: [quote]Mtutnid wrote: [quote]**Omnes wrote:**try some real meditation and then lets talk about free will wher brain is not the name of the game That said, I have no idea what you mean by: \\\\\\\"But the poster is clearly stating that the \\\\\\\"mind\\\\\\\" isn\\\\\\\'t located in the brain.\\\\\\\" Am I missing something?.. [/quote]
It might be that I am misunderstanding it, but I think he is trying to say he detaches his mind from his body. BTW I don\\\'t talk about these things often, we both have theories that haven\\\'t been proven. I can assure you I am no hippie and don\\\'t fail to enjoy life by rambling all day long. The end is near.[/quote]
I think you are right in what Omnes was implying. Like I said earlier, I think the way to understand this is not to represent the mind as completely independent from the body, although it hasn\'t been proven either way. I visualize it as the brain giving birth to the mind. During infancy we are all pretty mindless, and as we mature, our minds become more robust. The brain is the control center as part of the body for the body and consciousness is mostly used as a model to interpret reality. Declarative memory in our neocortex gives us conscious experiences with which to predict the consequences of our decisions. By \"detaching\" the mind from the body, I assume that means you purposely cut off all input from the brain stem and cortical nerve. You are left with only your imagination and creativity to rearrange your thoughts, focusing all your attention and mental faculties on whatever you choose.
Free will is of course a true belief. We have the power to make choices on moral issues. These will usually be based on our upbringing and what we have been taught, but we are always able to decide for ourselves when given a choice. We hold each other accountable for decisions because free will exists. Even if we are PERFECTLY taught principles of morality and fully understand them to be true values, we can still decide not to follow those principles. No one can force that upon you. I think, do deny the endowment of free will is to deny what it means to be human.
By \\\"detaching\\\" the mind from the body, I assume that means you purposely cut off all input from the brain stem and cortical nerve. You are left with only your imagination and creativity to rearrange your thoughts, focusing all your attention and mental faculties on whatever you choose.
This is the reason why I think that the brain and the body control our actions. With no free will there. There have been experiments where a person is cut off from their senses for a time. Vision, hearing, touch, temperature and even balance. Afterwards they reported being unable to think in any manner. No memories were evoked nothing could be done. That may not be entirely true, but most of our thinking is based on input. If you have caught yourself with a spontaneous thought or something done you will find that something around you triggered it. One cool thing in parties is people repeating each others jokes right after each other even though they didn\'t notice that they heard the other person say it and afterwards claiming that it just popped into their mind. Also if you have forgotten something and suddenly remember it, it is also very often triggered by objects, words or even a motion you are doing.
Free will is of course a true belief. We have the power to make choices on moral issues.
You can learn morals and some of them are inborn and the reason we have these moral feelings is that they have been tested through natural selection. Basically the things like don\'t kill, don\'t steal etc. work in a society. (Morals = what works best/close to best in a society over time)
These will usually be based on our upbringing and what we have been taught, but we are always able to decide for ourselves when given a choice.
Almost true. If you have been taught to hate black people you will have to learn to not do it. Egz. there is a Norwegian doctor that comes from Pakistan in his upbringing he was taught to hate Christians and the western society. And even after years in Norway he still felt those hostile feelings, even though he knew they were wrong (he didn\'t understand that himself, he was taught and it was shown to him that this society works). And how can we decide for ourselves truly if we have been brought up to choose to hate?
We hold each other accountable for decisions because free will exists.
I don\'t see it that way. I see it merely as if someone has done something wrong he isn\'t safe to be around him. If he is unfitting for this society you don\'t want him to have children that are brought up like him. It is merely an evolutionary convenience to hold each other accountable for something. Same for something doing something good. Make more of people like him.
Even if we are PERFECTLY taught principles of morality and fully understand them to be true values, we can still decide not to follow those principles. No one can force that upon you. I think, do deny the endowment of free will is to deny what it means to be human.
I\'m no human then. Yeah we can choose to not follow them, but who does that? This reminds me of a classmate who said that we live in an unsafe world because at any moment anyone can choose to plant a brick in your face. It\'s highly unlikely and the deviations from that are usually caused by physical disorders (increased testosterone, adrenalin). All psychological illnesses are caused by physical reactions in the body.
Please, do give me a description of what person i seem to be. (not sarcasm) Seriously. I would like to know if i seem like a crackpot hippie, a cynical old dying scientist or just a young twat.