To All HellBoundHackers
To All HellBoundHackers:
I'd been hoping to post a bunch more of these, but Im guessing thats not gonna happen, so Ill give you one last newspost.
HellBoundHackers has always been a place of hope and inspiration for the thousands of members that come here everyday. People from all around the world come here to get to know others with similar interests. To learn about how computers work, to ask questions and gain knowledge. What makes this a crime?
HellBoundHackers is a community no different to any other.
Recently, it appears that the UK/US government hasnt been liking the idea of free-thinking individuals, namely hackers in this case. It started with them wanting to hand out ASBO equivilents without needing evidence. Now theyve gone as far as wanting to arrest mr cheese and take down hbh.
HOW MUCH LONGER ARE WE GONNA TAKE THIS?
If you care for HBH and Mr Cheese, read on.
Hear me, hellboundhackers, my plea to freedom and justice. For aslong as the internet exists, people have studied how it works with curiosity. No different to scientists or mathematicians, hackers are especially interested in one thing: Computers. What makes this a crime? Whats wrong with wanting to find out? For years, hackers have been able to learn in peace. Unless they abused their knowledge, everyone was fine with them.
Everything is changing. The UK courts can hand out the equivilent of an ASBO to suspected hackers without needing evidence of them breaking the law.
HOW IS THIS JUSTICE?
As it seems like we're about to witness, the SS can just arrest hackers, for no apparent reasons.
And the scariest part is this:
NOBODY IS GOING TO CARE.
The general public is gonna agree with the SS that a hacker like Mr Cheese should be arrested. They believe hackers are bored teenage geeks with nothing better to do than hack other peoples computers.
HOW MUCH MORE ARE WE GONNA TAKE?
Knowledge is not a crime.
SO GET OFF YOUR ARSES AND DO SOMETHING WE ARE HACKERS.
ghost
ghost 18 years ago
nomenumbra: of course ethics aren't absolute, that goes without saying. It's like saying that beef is meat. Ethics are innately arbitrary. i hate to see a borther go down too, but instead of just blindly saying "okay, he's a hcker, he's my borther, this is unjust", I'd like to say "okay, he's a hacker. I support him no mater what (as I do… I'm sick of this bullcrap where everyone who disagrees with cheese is getting either ostracized, cussed out or banned) but that doesnt mean that I say what he did was absolutly just" Dogma is what I became a hacker to escape.
And blumoose: I can't. That's another problem. We, as members of the community, are . All I know is that the SS is going after him and that the law generally doesnt persecute people who take down kiddie porn sites. Give me an example of a site that he has defaced that is ethical in your point of view and that the SS would want to and would dedicate the resources to arrest him for. Part of the problem is all these people are saying 'we support cheese' and very few know what the hell chese is actually accused of doing. I support cheese, but that doesn't mean I'm going to make a statement of ethics and morals and justice without knowing what he did. Now, if you cna't do this, thats obviously understandable because you don't wnat to go around talking about stuff you did when you aren't sure if the SS has enough to convict you – but I'm just saying, until this dies down or he's arrested and charges are made public, no one who claims to be a rfee thinking hacker should me a judgement about justice as it relates to the situation.
Note that I've never stated that cheese did anything unjust, but that this news post and the general attitude of hackers today that our morals can be enforced via the internet is making me sick, and all these crys about injustice while people with out support uner the same banner take credit cards of hundreds and even thousands of people who they disagree with (Jeremy Hammond, and alot of this stuff about justice was thrown around when that came up too… no one took the time to think about the fact that he had stolen thousands of credit cards and planned on draining people accounts just because he didn't like what they said) or deface sites they disagree with.
Mr_Cheese 18 years ago
lets take for instance racist sites. why would racist filth be allowed on our internet? its illegal to spread racist bullshit propaganda over any other media, so why allow the internet. take for instance a modern day hitler. would you say his views and political opinions are ok providing he just keeps themonline. bullshit. thats just one example of unethical material i and thousands of others believe shouldnt be online. what about corrupt companies, what about spam servers, what about sites dedicated to hosting viruses, i could go on and on. im not talking about shutting down a site just coz you disagree with their view points. i disagree with the british conservative party but im not gonna go shutting down their website. im talking about removing poison from our internet to better the lifes of everyone over the world. if you have a good sense of ethics its easy to distinguish between whats right to remove and whats wrong.
ghost 18 years ago
Yeah, and thousands of people believe that hackers shouldn't be on the internet. That anyone that hosts things like HBH should be put offline. You've experianced this first hand. Mr. Cheese, it's the precedence you set in doing this, not the censorship itself. You're saying 'alot of people disagree with them. They aren't allowed anywhere else. We won't allow them on the internet either' sets a precendence that is scary because hackers are unpopular. If we say racists and pervy men who like children and nazis arent allowed online well, guess who's public enemy number 1 when it comes to the internet? Hackers. So, cheese, set that precedence if you want. But when hacker's can't say what htey want on the internet without having their sites shut down, don't cry injustice. And why allow them on the internet when we dont allow them other places? It's called freedom of information. I support a free internet where EVERYONE can express their opinions, no matter how sick or wrong.
ghost 18 years ago
note to all: anything regarding my points has now been moved to the comments forum per blumoose's request. Cheers.
ghost 18 years ago
Gah headache again… Im having a hard time arguing your points here, I agree with most of it :angry:
ghost 18 years ago
nvm, bluemoose. The forum wasnt removed, just moved http://hellboundhackers.org/fusion_forum/viewthread.php?forum_id=19&thread_id=4902&rowstart=20
ghost 18 years ago
This is a delicate situation. If we do nothing, they are going to make us into even more of criminals, and they will slowly destroy our rights and ban us from the internet. If we fight back, and try to show them that we are not going to let our communities (which are perfectly constitutional and legal) be destroyed, they will most likely do the same thing.
I think our best chance is to get our voice heard in the public. But there lies the problem. Black-Hat's and criminals have been terrorizing the US/UK for years, stealing credit cards, defacing websites, and fucking every computer they can get their filthy hands on. -This is why I agree with Mr_Cheese, if we dont change our stereo-type, we dont have a chance of surviving. Unfortunately to many fucking retards still want to steal credit cards and deface to be "cool". To all of you who fit this description, listen: Soon you are going to lose your rights. Soon hacker-communities will be banned. Soon your chat will be monitored. And soon you will be in jail. Please do the right thing.
Im not sure what we should do. But something has to be done. I think anyone who calls themself a hacker needs to get up and get involved in this decision. We are not going to survive like we did in the past. That time is over. This is now. This is our culture's future.
-Long live HBH
ghost 18 years ago
As much as the leaders and intellectuals of this site would like to believe that they are creating a safe learning environment for "curious" computer geeks, look no further then the voting panel to see one of the reasons this site is targeted to be shut down:
I want to be a hacker and learn to exploit 30% [172 Votes]
Im a webmaster and learning how to secure 4% [23 Votes]
Im a webmaster and hacker. Everything on HBH is useful. 21% [121 Votes]
Just here to hang out and learn 44% [252 Votes]
30% of the users who voted want to be Hackers. If the voting popularity was correct for everyone, then that means roughly 3000 users on hbh are hackers or want to be hackers.
These days the word hacker is synonymous with "The bad guy". We not only have to change the outlook of our stereotype but also the outlook of the site eg. The code bank is full of codes that people can use maliciously, the lessons section contains tutorials that walk you through defacing/hacking sites and then theres the hundreds of people who express their own opinions in articles and forums everyday. This site IS extremely popular and lots of visitors to the site have very diferent opinions from one another: odds are that atleast some of the 30% who want to be "Hackers" will steal money and deface websites for no reason, this is what the law wants to prevent. The law holds no concern for the majority of a social group that has negative outlook and neither does society.
Goodluck Mr_Cheese :happy:
ghost 18 years ago
What is it with you guys? Take it to the forums, lol. Messages are so hard to read in these tiny comments XD
ghost 18 years ago
Good luck Cheese, i hope you'll get out of this mess. As alot of other members of HBH, i support you all the way with whatever i can.
ghost 18 years ago
I'm new to this website, many of you don't know me unless frogguy!! Well I'm here to support Mr.Cheese, give a little help!! Mr.Cheese remember that they may even look upon your family history an EVEN your medical records just to find a weak spot to make a wide blow to your moral so you don't fuck up their plans, so I give you an advice be prepared for anything they can ask you so you don't give any reactions upos any questions!! I know you haven't came as far you are now if you haven't got a good knowledge, but as i said, just here to help!! As for me the sooner you get out of this mess the better for all of us, cause what this world needs is men like you !!
ghost 18 years ago
I used to believe that I was an anarchist, but I realize i cant be because some laws I live by, but most things in this world i do not. I cant just get mad and "hack" into the pentagon because bush sent our families to war. I gotta live by this and when i am of the age to vote, i will fight back then, but right now, all I can do is speak my opinion any legal way i can. Yeah, I have done illegal stuff but nothing to get time for, maybe a slap on the wrist. We need to show we aint weak and stand together as hackers though. we become weak like jews did, and the "Nazis" will take over.
**Note- I meant nothing bad by the use of jews and nazis. this is just how I am comparing.
ghost 18 years ago
I say we all should stand together in this time of need. i've only found this site yesterday, and already i feel like i belong. this is no ordinary community, this is a family. Mr Cheese is the big brother who taught us the way of life. This is the time of IT, they've got the I, and we've the T. They can't stop us all.
ghost 18 years ago
maybe you should actually tell us what u got arrested for ? then maybe we can support you.
ghost 18 years ago
Genome, what do you think?
This makes me sick, it's prejudice, and its wrong. we gotta fight this!
ghost 18 years ago
@Genome, he hasnt been arrested yet… doesnt look like he will anymore (I dont think). And drew, whats wrong with Genomes post? Mr Cheese has defaced sites, which is a crime. No matter how ethical, everything has consequences. And no intent to be a dick or anything, but I dont think u know what ur talking about when u say "we gotta fight this" ;) In other news, 60 replies to this news post :D HBH record methinks ^.^ Maybe time to get admin again sumtime soon? :D
ghost 18 years ago
Errm yehr thats what I was saying… he's obviously broken the law, Britain hasnt fallen into complete anarchy and arrest people for no reason… I know several pages teamhbh (or w/e its called) have defaced…