What is your favorite programming language?
these threads are always just an esoteric discussion that very often is based on what language a user learned first. there is no best language… and very often a task has a few that are suitable for it….
it depends mostly on what you want out of your language. odds are if you are asking this question you are looking to learn. therefore you should get a one that is easy to use yet functional… i would recommend php for that purpose. as you gain more knowledge you will be able to judge for yourself whatelse to learn
NO, FUCK Visual Basic!
Q: Is Visual Basic a good language to start with? A:
If you're asking this question, it almost certainly means you're thinking about trying to hack under Microsoft Windows. This is a bad idea in itself. When I compared trying to learn to hack under Windows to trying to learn to dance while wearing a body cast, I wasn't kidding. Don't go there. It's ugly, and it never stops being ugly.
There is a specific problem with Visual Basic; mainly that it's not portable. Though there is a prototype open-source implementations of Visual Basic, the applicable ECMA standards don't cover more than a small set of its programming interfaces. On Windows most of its library support is proprietary to a single vendor (Microsoft); if you aren't extremely careful about which features you use — more careful than any newbie is really capable of being — you'll end up locked into only those platforms Microsoft chooses to support. If you're starting on a Unix, much better languages with better libraries are available. Python, for example.
Also, like other Basics, Visual Basic is a poorly-designed language that will teach you bad programming habits. No, don't ask me to describe them in detail; that explanation would fill a book. Learn a well-designed language instead.
One of those bad habits is becoming dependent on a single vendor's libraries, widgets, and development tools. In general, any language that isn't fully supported under at least Linux or one of the BSDs, and/or at least three different vendors' operating systems, is a poor one to learn to hack in.
Also read here
Like Samurai stated earlier, there are different languages which can do different things. A good programmer can analyse the problem and perform a quick hypothesis which should lead to the answer. The only way to know how to do this is actually learn stuff and go face some challenges.
Asking for the "best" language is like asking "what is the answer for every question I have?".
Yes, sir. VB sucks. And a very bad choice to start hacking. And yes, maybe many would find it easy, because of its ease in statements, etc… It will make you learn very bad habits, however, you can't code on any platform, but Windows systems. Java is another programming language, its a bit harder than python, so putting it in the second choice, would be nice. No one will reach "hacking" skill by learning one or two languages. You have to think in a *logical *way, and start to solve problems logically. Hacking is a lot of fun, but fun needs a lot of effort. Freedom is good.
Well, imo, asm is probably the hardest, and probably the most powerfull language.
But by 'the best', you probably mean the ballance between syntax and easyness.
I believe that would be c/c++. (syntax and easyness)
asm (hard and more powerfull)
In the end, everything gets compiled in asm, so yea. ASM rulez! :)
So the fact is visual basic was poorly-designed (None wouldn't accept). Visual Basic, maybe is the worst language ever can code applications on Windows platform, generally, it fits database-based programs, for little companies. Visual Basic, unlike other languages (Delphi, C, C++), does not full converted to machine language, but to a medium code that connects link library which is called "Run Time library", and its "MSVBMnn.dll", where "nn" is its version.
mido wrote: And what's the furthest can be done with Visual Basic?
Kick your sorry ass. Seriously, your view on the whole thing is being clouded by personal opinions and rubbish. Do you know how to handle COM ports in C++? Can you send AT commands to your cell phone in Python?
You probably can, but damn it's hard to find any info on it. I used VB2008 for this and could read/write COM ports within three minutes.
Those three minutes made me a loser because I used VBS? Don't think so.
VB.Net can do everything the .Net framework can do, which means, a lot of things. Of course you can handle sockets and ports, and it's very easy. When you use the .Net framework, whatever language you use (C#, VB, J#, Delphi.Net, etc) will be compiled into the same code (MSIL). This means, all these languages are compiled the same way and executed the same way. If you think VB.Net is not good and not well designed, it means you think the whole .Net framwork. .Net framework is great, it provides many rich functions to do many things (network, encryption, web applications, and much more) and it let you develop web applications, desktop applications and mobile applications (devices with Windows Mobile). I often use the .Net framework for multiple purposes because of its ease and speed of development.
I forgot to mention that even Silverlight uses a light version of the .Net framework:
What you said all together is good, CLR isn't bad, despite it also uses runtime environment, but the issue is, I wasn't talking about .NET Framework. When I said "What the furthest can be done with Visual Basic", I meant Visual Basic itself, but still, Visual Basic, is bad (If not the worst), and can't do everything, Microsoft always limits things! Even though its great Visual Studio (VC++), but while doing "very huge" and I repeat, "very huge" projects, it won't let you do that. Freedom is very good dude!
.net is the biggest crap there is.not surprisingly coming from M$. the point with it is,if you code with the .net framework, any program you distribute,will REQUIRE .NET!!! i mean,how fucked up is that?There goes compatible. which visual basic already is NOT!so,with program coded with use of the dot net framework, people are forced,to get more microsoft crap. because,else your gd programs wont run! just think about it.it fucking retarded :S not what coders ask for.its just what M$ forces down your throat :S
I agree with most of the post, Micro$oft is the biggest example I've ever seen-for closed/limited source. And if you're trying to say : "If I didn't code in Windows, what should I code for? Windows is popular", then start coding on UNIX systems, Very easy languages are poor, very hard ones are valuable, but very hard. I (myself)* don't like programming that way : print date(); output : its Tuesday, September 11, 2007.
I like, to "handle" my system, and have the 100% or not less than 75% of the control overall the system. Like, defining, and make the computer, first, understand what is even, merely the "date", then how to print it, etc…
*: I've said "myself" to keep people out of thinking that I'm forcing someone to do something, that's just my opinion
So, basically…
- Everyone has their language preferences.
- C++ is good for working with low-level components.
- VB.Net / C# is good for throwing something quick together.
- Everyone hates Microsoft.
Did I miss anything?
Oh, and I personally like using VB.Net myself… I find it easy to use for throwing together a quick program when I need it. Since I run the programs on my own XP machine only, compatibility is not an issue. Also, since I have used C, C++, Turbo Pascal, PHP, and Perl before, I don't have to worry about the "best practice" coding philosophy… My code all flows and follows logic, regardless of what language I'm using.
mitz247 wrote: fair enough if u dont stuff otehr things up but to start with VB as your first language IMO is not great. It will teach you bad programming habbits
What about BASIC V3.5? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commodore_Plus/4) :happy:
mido wrote: Lol, Zephyr_Pure, what about programming upon Intel 8008 :D
You win. ;) And now, for the typical old school quote:
"Why, in my day, we didn't have a GUI, our modems ran at 14.4, we had to use WordPerfect, we played Monopoly and "Where in the World is Carmen Sandiago?" in DOS… and we liked it."
ASCII porn rocks. :p
I wouldn't use VB even if it was the better designed language in the world. The point here is that it's microsoft's, a company which wants to make some profits by chaining the computer science to itself. I think that we should go for a computer science which has standard that anyone can implement, study and improve. This is not what Mr.Bill Gates has in his mind, probably, basing on how his company acts, he wants the opposite…. So please don't be another slave and leave microsoft drown in its crap (vb,msn,silverlight,ooxml,windows….)
After that i like writing in C and python
Lol, Zephyr, ASCII pr0nz0r ftwz0r, and your quote reminds me with
Supplies are plentiful. We have enough food and drink to last 30,000 years, although we have run out of Shake 'n' Vac. lol! [Red Dwarf]. And at thejas : Thats exactly what i would say in my next post. Yeah, Micro$oft want to "Own The Globe", but I won't let it do it :p But, MSN isn't bad (as a mail server) but messenger; I have never seen a program crashes always like Windows Live Messenger. It seems that Microsoft care more about the interface, and forgot the core.
Sure, .net framework is required to use the applications coded with the .Net framework, that's the only bad thing I can think about those languages. It is like java, you need to have java virtual machine (or whatever the name is) installed, and need the right version.
Saying something is bad because of the person/company who created it, is a not good way to judge something. You need to judge on what the thing was meant to do. Of course .Net will not replace C++, Delphi, ASM and such. The beauty of the .Net is that you can link everything easily, you can have 1 library that can be used for both web applications, desktop applications and mobile applications (with 1 language, you can do all these types of applications) and there are many rich built-in functions. You can even use multiple .Net languages together. For general purpose, .Net is not bad. If you want to do an app that will be installed on many computers that you do not own, then it is not a really good idea, because the .Net framework is required. I even know ERP systems that are coded using the .Net technologies. Very rich system and used by all kind of companies around the world.
Also, Visual Studio is a great IDE. It can be very customized and can use other compilers if you do not like Microsoft's compilers.
I personally learned C# before I learn C++ and MFC, and it helped me a lot, but that's just my opinion and we all learn differently ;)
Right, and i don't hate Microsoft from first sight and without obvious reason! I don't "hate" Microsoft, its not that bad, the issue is sometimes, it makes you feel that it wants to make more money, despite its badly-closed source. Microsoft Windows isn't a failure project, it succeed. and
Saying something is bad because of the person/company who created it Dude, its not personally! I don't hate Bill Gates, as I said, I dislike Microsoft's way, and Microsoft (of course) implement their way in any programs they design.
Well, it's pertinent thinking about side-effects when judging! If you write VB software you do a favour to microsoft because that software can only be used on their systems. The better you are the worst you do. If you write great software in VB ( which can be possible, or maybe not, i don't know ) you do a big favour to a corporation that thinks bad! Messenger is the same story. I don't know how it goes in your countries…anyway in Italy every youth uses it and thinks this is the only way to communicate instantly, that it's beautiful with all that optionals. I don't know how beautiful msn is, I just know that those guys will buy microsoft's product also because they want to run Live Messenger, because they spent hours on that crap and don't want to stop. They never known about Jabber and don't wanna know about it. Said that maybe you agree with me that writing good software in VB is EVIL!!!
thejas wrote: Well, it's pertinent thinking about side-effects when judging! If you write VB software you do a favour to microsoft because that software can only be used on their systems. The better you are the worst you do. If you write great software in VB ( which can be possible, or maybe not, i don't know ) you do a big favour to a corporation that thinks bad! Messenger is the same story. I don't know how it goes in your countries…anyway in Italy every youth uses it and thinks this is the only way to communicate instantly, that it's beautiful with all that optionals. I don't know how beautiful msn is, I just know that those guys will buy microsoft's product also because they want to run Live Messenger, because they spent hours on that crap and don't want to stop. They never known about Jabber and don't wanna know about it.
Lol, yes man, if you didn't use (or code (as they think they're coding on windows system!)), how come they will "yield" money? And it goes in Egypt as Italia. Well, I think, all of what Microsoft has now, because of more propaganda than UNIX systems, so then, people (ordinary users (who is the most)), see the ads, and love it, and says "WOW! That new media player, is awesome! I can't switch outside Windows, or I'll be like the fish get outside water!", and more likely : "Oh, What Linux? Linux is shit! When I install it, it doesn't play my media files, its shit, and I won't use that crap! And Windows seems cooler! When I install Windows, everything is ready, and sets itself". (I know thats not true, but that's been said). And :
Said that maybe you agree with me that writing good software in VB is EVIL!!! I am already.
As far as the VB thing goes, the only complaint I have against it is that it makes some bad habits if you use it as your first language (as I did). It was a little wierd using "print" and "echo" after using msgbox for a while. Arrays were also a little wierd to get used to (was used to dim the whole time)
Anyway, I enjoy C++, even though I'm not all too good at it.
PHP is fun and pretty useful. It's also widely used, so it's easier to share code and stuff. I would like to say it's more used than ASP, but I don't wanna assume.:p
Perl, from what I've heard is very useful as well for web-based apps and stuff, and I might start learning that.
EDIT: Turbocharged, I'm using your avvie because it's cool. I tried to PM you but your box is full. I hope you don't mind.
Moonbat wrote: EDIT: Turbocharged, I'm using your avvie because it's cool. I tried to PM you but your box is full. I hope you don't mind.
[offtopic] Oh, he won't mind… he ripped his from the DMZ logo. Head is even cut off at the same point in the picture, which makes it rather obvious. You should stick with a bat. [/offtopic]
As for the whole M$ flame, you're right, but no one cares. M$ is a business that built its standing based upon an OS that has closed source. Many other companies do the same with programs that are closed source (Adobe comes to mind). So, should we stop using Photoshop because it's closed source (and runs on Windows)?
Now, for the on-topic part of my post… I use VB.Net and I don't mind saying so. It's a powerful language and easy to create a program with. I'm planning on switching to C++ or Java, though, mainly for programming on different platforms.
<offtopic> the avatar is not ripped from DMZ it is just the head of the main character from a game named Assassin's Creed </offtopic>
And not on topic. The languages that i recomand a person to learn are: PHP,C/C++,JavaScript.
C/C++ beacuse it is the language used to write all the main apps we use today like Linuz, Windows etc. And as on of my friend who worked at Microsoft or at least was very close to them:
I will start to learn C# when Windows will be written in C# untill then i remain at my old C/C++
PHP it is the main language who is used for server side scripting, and it is one of the fastest languages, ASP is a shit, like all MS things.
JavaScript in this way yiu can controll the way a page act on the use part
Idk what Perl and Python do but i heared they are good for coding exploits(PoC). If i'm wrong please correct me
Turbo Pascal is still one of my favorite languages… I have fond memories of wasting my high school life away in front of a computer with a DOS-style menu up, coding some good ol' Pascal.
As for the other languages, haven't messed with them. Been wanting to check out Delphi, but haven't had any time. Same with Python.
The question is too broad. Some things are easier/better to do in one language than another sometimes. Like rootkits are better to code in C++ than they are in ASM, but ASM you can create pretty much anything you want.
I use the following languages: VB, [F]ASM, PHP and C++, but I know a few more languages such as Perl and ASP etc. For creating applications if its possible in VB (and I don't need say a smaller file size), then I will do it in VB. If I want to get a small file size then I'll program it in ASM so that I can do lots of header relocations and get a very small file size. Unfortunately lots of languages don't incorporate this into their IDE so its not possible.
My favorite is probably C++. I love coding in it because it's complex but not too hard (like ASM). I also like Python 'cause it's so simple. Perl's also another of my preferred languages it's useful and reasonably simple.
Does anyone know any good resources for Lisp? Like IDEs and tutorials… even community sites? - Thanks
Reaper
ThorsDecree wrote: TI-BASIC (.8xp series) Muahahaha
nah jk, haha. ASM FTW!
I bet you don't even know what ASM is and/or you don't even use it. ASM is barely ever use because it takes more time to code an application with it than in C/C++. And for performance there isn't huge difference between C/C++ and ASM.