Collaboration
Dear programmers,
I know that some of you are bored out of your mind. And to tell you the truth, I am at least as bored as you are. So my question is, why don't we put a HBH programming team together and work on some fun project(s)?
If you are interested let me know in a post down below. We can do any project in whatever language you guys feel like using. Also, keep in mind that there are some contests going on out there with some prizes involved!
ex. Ericsson is having a Widget Award Contest with a prize pot of 30 000+ Euros.
What do you guys think?
Cheers, //DH
-god- wrote: hmm…. could be interesting…. unless this particular demographic doesn't enjoy programming for programmings sake? Personally i can't be arsed going to the bother of doing that. Money or no, there's no guaranteed end result.
I think most people here enjoy programming. Otherwise they shouldn't be here :P
I've been already thinking about this. Entering any contest is stupid though, I doubt you will be able to co-ordinate group of people who haven't worked together before, to meet deadline etc. If you are serious about this, first you will need to plan properly. What is to be made, in what time frame, in what language, and how do will go around implementing multiple languages, how do you separate roles/tasks… When you have a reasonably well thought out plan, only then you can get the ball rolling.
cyber-guard wrote: I've been already thinking about this. Entering any contest is stupid though, I doubt you will be able to co-ordinate group of people who haven't worked together before, to meet deadline etc. If you are serious about this, first you will need to plan properly. What is to be made, in what time frame, in what language, and how do will go around implementing multiple languages, how do you separate roles/tasks… When you have a reasonably well thought out plan, only then you can get the ball rolling.
Agreed! We dont have to enter a contest! lets just have a fun project to work on together. It could be something that HBH can use or any other community. Maybe an Open Source platform or a framework of some sort?!
what do you think? any project suggestions?
suggestion 1: a hacking game of some sort? where u enter the world of hacking and get missions delivered to you, etc.
Well it could be anything really, language wise I would stick to PHP (a lot of people know it at decent level around here). Second reason for php is that if we make something usable, we could actually implement it on hbh… Another thing you want to take into equation is scalability, although at the beginning, there may be only 5 active coders, as the work progresses and something of reasonable quality is actually produced, more people should join in, making the development more rapid. If you have any ideas, just throw them in and we'll see :)
That's where it becomes messy, with lots more developers, the language specifics do not really matter at this point there are two other things to think about:
i) Clash of coding style can become an issue, messy code tends to be cumbersome to sort out. So something has to be set down as a common style to maintain and someone must check the consistency of the source. [Maybe peer reviewed / more experienced developers in the group]
ii) What kind of source control/backup do you have in mind?
Last thing you want are random major changes, for exmaple: that leave compromising security holes and no means of rolling back. So the best thing would be an SVN (or similar) repository and any developers must be familiar with how to operate it, registered, and be responsible for their section(s) of code and commit/checkout to and from the repository .
Otherwise, a good idea. :)
Jim,
<?php // Simple Project answer script by ADIGA. // Please do not use unless your an HBH Member. if(isset($_GET['project']) && $_GET['project'] !='') { $project_lang=$_GET['project']; if($project_lang=='PHP') { $say='Count Me In!!!'; } else { $say='Damn, Whats is wrong with you people! I Hate you all.'; } echo $say; } else { echo 'Please set the programming language for the project!'; } ?>
j4m32 wrote: i) Clash of coding style can become an issue, messy code tends to be cumbersome to sort out.
That's why when groups of programmers start programming something, they create a default coding style. It would be fundamental that each programmer created proper documentation of each element they created so that the project could be developed properly without many problems. Using the GNU standards for C would be really interesting, as GNU codes are very readable.
Why do people hate C and love PHP that much? :O Why not program some modular stuff in C? ;) But you know… Just saying…
Why do people hate C and love PHP that much? :O Why not program some modular stuff in C? ;) But you know… Just saying…
for me its not that i think that PHP is better, but for me it was easier to learn with great functionalty for the company i work for (2000 employees and +50 locations all over the country) it was a bit hard to go and install for all, so a simple http server on the intranet would do the trick :)
cyber-guard wrote: Well it could be anything really, language wise I would stick to PHP (a lot of people know it at decent level around here). Second reason for php is that if we make something usable, we could actually implement it on hbh…
I <3 PHP, so PHP it is!
j4m32 wrote: i) Clash of coding style can become an issue, messy code tends to be cumbersome to sort out. So something has to be set down as a common style to maintain and someone must check the consistency of the source. [Maybe peer reviewed / more experienced developers in the group]
ii) What kind of source control/backup do you have in mind?
Last thing you want are random major changes, for exmaple: that leave compromising security holes and no means of rolling back. So the best thing would be an SVN (or similar) repository and any developers must be familiar with how to operate it, registered, and be responsible for their section(s) of code and commit/checkout to and from the repository .
i) I (or someone more experienced) can make up a list of coding conventions. it should be pretty straight forward and comments + some documentation should be be included in all classes.
ii) There are tons of OS solutions out there for that kinda problems. A cron job should take care of backups, so we don't have to be too "fancy".
We can use a simple MVC approach. That way, we can give every programmer a controller to work on. And once the controller is done, a ftp simple upload should be more than enough!
ADIGA wrote:
<?php
function users($user){
if($user == "ADIGA")
return "sure";
else
return "You're in too";
}
?>
chess_rock wrote: Why do people hate C and love PHP that much? :O Why not program some modular stuff in C? ;) But you know… Just saying… My preference has nothing to do with love of PHP, in fact I learned it only out of necessity. Nonetheless it is a matter of a fact that project in PHP will attract right from the start more skilled people then C (around here), simple as that. Hence the preference.
Demons Halo wrote: i) I (or someone more experienced) can make up a list of coding conventions. it should be pretty straight forward and comments + some documentation should be be included in all classes.
ii) There are tons of OS solutions out there for that kinda problems. A cron job should take care of backups, so we don't have to be too "fancy".
We can use a simple MVC approach. That way, we can give every programmer a controller to work on. And once the controller is done, a ftp simple upload should be more than enough!
i) writing some simple guidelines shouldn't be a problem, besides I believe a lot of those materials are already out there, so it's just matter of finding a good set of rules to follow.
ii) I'd personally vote for git as a version control
MVC is given:)
i would say that the best way to start is to set what the project should be, if its php it could be anything starting from simple scripts and going up until a full complicated CMS with forums and many things (not saying this is what we will do).
starting with the structure of the database (if it needs any), then splitting tasks, ans assigning vars and methods to be used.
do a simple or a partial coding each on his task (with comments) and then checking them and start to set the base of the unified coding style deppending on weaknesses and strengths of what we coded.
that way we could find the best style to use in any project.
just an openion. and no one say anything about spelling mistakes please :P
ADIGA wrote: i would say that the best way to start is to set what the project should be, if its php it could be anything starting from simple scripts and going up until a full complicated CMS with forums and many things (not saying this is what we will do).
I agree with that, bring in some ideas:) and what's the purpose of making simple scripts with a team of people. And there is plenty of CMS solutions, why be repetitive, try to come up with something unique.
do a simple or a partial coding each on his task (with comments) and then checking them and start to set the base of the unified coding style deppending on weaknesses and strengths of what we coded.
that way we could find the best style to use in any project.
just an openion. and no one say anything about spelling mistakes please :P
No, that's definitely wrong way to start, that means that the project would not start with uniform coding style. You want have certain rules/conventions before you write a single line.
Anyhow now would be the time to start throwing in ideas, so anyone interested feel free to propose anything…
as a simple yet not already made idea for a php script … how about a news broadcast script for multiple websites, it could be made of 3 parts, one to add the news to a database and then uses curl to submit it to a client script on the other websites and keep track of those who got it or not.
the second part would be the client side the would get the curl request from the main script and then saves the data into a text file or xml file or what ever.
the third part would be the display script that the website admin could include in his pages to show the news,
a script like that would be a fast way for admins who have more than one website or those who want to show news about certin stuff.
to make it more advanced we could make Categories that the admin could subscribe to and only recieves news in that only.
Here are my suggestions:
I) A hacking game of some sort –> Enter the world of hacking and get missions delivered to you, etc. (points for each accomplished mission)
II) Open Source CMS / Communication tool for schools (replacement for the shitty Moodle crap every school uses)
III) HTML5 framework. PHP/JS library for creative usage of HTML5 (especially the Canvas tag)
IV) 3D game
what do u think?
spyware wrote: [quote]Demons Halo wrote: III) HTML5 framework. PHP/JS library for creative usage of HTML5 (especially the Canvas tag)
what do u think?
This is the only interesting thing in your list/in this thread.[/quote]
I'm really surpirsed that there is no useful framework out there yet! there should be one, especially if you consider the amount of new tags HTML5 provides.
Vector-fusion wrote: [quote]Demons Halo wrote: I'm really surpirsed that there is no **useful **framework out there yet! there should be one, especially if you consider the amount of new tags HTML5 provides.
Did you even try doing this ? http://tinyurl.com/4m9l4rd [/quote]
ooh yes I did, and I've tried some of them… The question is: did you see the word USEFUL?! or did you just ignore it in order to show off your tinyurl skills?
-god- wrote: hmm, why don't you try to compile all the HBH missions into a game? make a script to simulate a browser so that it can be completely independent of the actual site?
this could be done yet its not what is needed, why? simply because you want people to come to the site for 2 main reasons, 1- more hits on the site better rank and that drives more users and so on. 2- adverts pay for this site (even if that was partially), if people did not visit much less income to the website and therefore difficulties in keeping it running.
ADIGA wrote: [quote]-god- wrote: hmm, why don't you try to compile all the HBH missions into a game? make a script to simulate a browser so that it can be completely independent of the actual site?
this could be done yet its not what is needed, why? simply because you want people to come to the site for 2 main reasons, 1- more hits on the site better rank and that drives more users and so on. 2- adverts pay for this site (even if that was partially), if people did not visit much less income to the website and therefore difficulties in keeping it running.[/quote]
perhaps then, a variation of the challenges? or a sample for advertisements sake? send it out with some basic articles on say the first two of each category and send it out in an attempt to draw in more people? it's in the sites interest that way?
-god- wrote: perhaps then, a variation of the challenges? or a sample for advertisements sake? send it out with some basic articles on say the first two of each category and send it out in an attempt to draw in more people? it's in the sites interest that way?
Could be, but any thing you offer outside of the website will get you to lose visitors, even if that a small amount of them, and on the other hand, a group of people on a "Hacking" related place issuing a PC Application ….. that would seem like a scam to get people to download ca virus or something like that, i would say we should stick to something that is server side and has a large base of users and people who really know the language we use, so that it can be reviewed by others whom in turn will provide credibility to it.
this my sound stupid, but … how about something that teaches you a programming/scripting language based on a language you already know, as an example… those who know PHP and want to learn ASP could use something like function or help chooser where he selects the function or statment he already knows to learn how it can be used or what is the equalivent of it in another language, sort of a translator for programming languages aimed for those who can program and want to learn something new.
for me i always want to learn new things but all the garbage talk makes me wanna quit before even starting :P
well first of all, anybody who's interested, why don't we just post random scripts we've made in this thread, with a basic overview of what you're trying to achieve with it so that the rest of us can see where the others stand, then hopefully some random inspiration will come out of the wood works.
sound like a decent start? 'cause right now we have no idea who's at what level so we can't really make a challenge not knowing whether we'll be able to make it as a group ;)
Come one, Demons Halo, get some nuts up and grab a hold of this. I may not like you, but if you genuinely want to do this then it'd be a shame to watch it just die. I think any game is a terrible idea, as is just doing some general forum crap, but didn't you have a good idea on the first page that even spyware agreed with? Just pick something and do it. Finer details can be ironed out once you have an interested group. Also, whether to decide a coding style is easy: do so.
stealth- wrote: This is what happens to most "code collaboration" groups. They have absolutely no idea where to start. I'm sure there are lots of people that would enjoy helping out, myself included, but without anyone having any idea of a direction of where to go in the first place, it won't even get started.
I just wanted to know what you guys want to work on… :/ do you have any ideas? The best one I have is an HTML5 framework, would that be of any interest to you?
COM wrote: Come one, Demons Halo, get some nuts up and grab a hold of this. I may not like you, but if you genuinely want to do this then it'd be a shame to watch it just die. I think any game is a terrible idea, as is just doing some general forum crap, but didn't you have a good idea on the first page that even spyware agreed with? Just pick something and do it. Finer details can be ironed out once you have an interested group. Also, whether to decide a coding style is easy: do so.
U sure know how to motivate ppl you dont like…
anyway, how many of you would be interested in the HTML5 framework concept?
I haven't got time to organize this by any chance, but I do have an idea. Daemon Halo proposed a HTML5 framework, and I quite liked that, although that on its own is incredibly vague. Let me run this past you. I am sure you are familiar with xss and ajax worms, well this would be basically be a little twist on kind of web worm, nonetheless taking advantage of all the fancy stuff HTML5 introduces. The idea is that you find a persistent XSS on a site, and you want to get a little more info then cookies etc. So what you can do after the user visits the page with xss is infect all the links with the worm, use ajax to load every link the user clicks so he doesn't actually leave your control. All that was possible before HTML5; what wasn't possible was to log all and every keystroke (and other action) that the user took in relatively hassle free way. New fancy events in HTML5 allow us to do this. Of course we still want to keep everything stealth, so you would need to log the data on invisible input area (where you sent the user with autofocus), and then project it on the actual frontend of the website, so the user doesn't get suspicious. Effectively we'd be developing a browser-based keylogger. There is a lot of things to account for, and could be quite a challenge; I'm ready for any feedback…
j4m32 wrote: That's where it becomes messy, with lots more developers, the language specifics do not really matter at this point there are two other things to think about:
i) Clash of coding style can become an issue, messy code tends to be cumbersome to sort out. So something has to be set down as a common style to maintain and someone must check the consistency of the source. [Maybe peer reviewed / more experienced developers in the group]
ii) What kind of source control/backup do you have in mind?
Last thing you want are random major changes, for exmaple: that leave compromising security holes and no means of rolling back. So the best thing would be an SVN (or similar) repository and any developers must be familiar with how to operate it, registered, and be responsible for their section(s) of code and commit/checkout to and from the repository .
Otherwise, a good idea. :)
Jim,
You obviously let the most experienced programmers design an architecture, so there won't be a clash of coding styles.
However, I don't think there alot people wanting to design architectures all the time on HBH, it's kind of timeconsuming. I recently designed a 5tier architecture for my MVC framework (Yes, a mixed one. MVC does not state that adding more tiers/layers makes it invalid). Before i'm going off- topic, it took some serious time designing that architecture the framework's purpose is to automate every web application. (Presentation, Data, Logic) so I can basically ´´create´´ any web application by just using a control panel (GUI).
To the point though, if there any interesting projects don't hesitate to contact me. I'm up for most things.
cyber-guard wrote: I haven't got time to organize this by any chance, but I do have an idea. Daemon Halo proposed a HTML5 framework, and I quite liked that, although that on its own is incredibly vague. Let me run this past you. I am sure you are familiar with xss and ajax worms, well this would be basically be a little twist on kind of web worm, nonetheless taking advantage of all the fancy stuff HTML5 introduces. The idea is that you find a persistent XSS on a site, and you want to get a little more info then cookies etc. So what you can do after the user visits the page with xss is infect all the links with the worm, use ajax to load every link the user clicks so he doesn't actually leave your control. All that was possible before HTML5; what wasn't possible was to log all and every keystroke (and other action) that the user took in relatively hassle free way. New fancy events in HTML5 allow us to do this. Of course we still want to keep everything stealth, so you would need to log the data on invisible input area (where you sent the user with autofocus), and then project it on the actual frontend of the website, so the user doesn't get suspicious. Effectively we'd be developing a browser-based keylogger. There is a lot of things to account for, and could be quite a challenge; I'm ready for any feedback… I would go with this.