Getting a Job in Programming???
Hi,
I have a lot of health issues (blah, blah, blah, insert life story here) that really limits my capacity for work.
I've been wondering about doing programming, most likely freelance, and I wanna know what anyone here can tell me about it. Any info would be very, very much appreciated.
Specifically, I'm wondering:
a) I live in Australia, what kind of opportunities (if any) are available? b) How much can realistically be earnt? c) Are certifications necessary or favoured? d) What is the best way to learn? Just learn from the web? Books? Face-to-face? University? e) Is there any way to fast-track it? I don't wanna be stuck studying for years, I need money and something to do with my time.
I'm hoping at least one person here has a job in programming or makes a little bit of money from it and could tell me what they know.
Also, I'm not specifically stuck on programming, I'm open to web design or administration or other possibilities.
XHTML and VB.net is all at this stage. And I can do CSS but only with Dreamweaver or similar. Pretty much just crappy High-School education.
So yeah I'm not expecting a job to fall from the sky with my current knowledge!
I'd have to start some serious studying and learn some languages. That's part of what I'm askin is what's the best way to learn and how long would it take to learn enough cuz I wanna fast track it as much as possible.
macfarlanet wrote: XHTML and VB.net is all at this stage. And I can do CSS but only with Dreamweaver or similar. Pretty much just crappy High-School education.
So yeah I'm not expecting a job to fall from the sky with my current knowledge!
I'd have to start some serious studying and learn some languages. That's part of what I'm askin is what's the best way to learn and how long would it take to learn enough cuz I wanna fast track it as much as possible. Just know how to do some basic shit, like installing WP or Joomla, and get your comments right, and you are well on your way to get a freelance job on vWorker.com. Yeah, that's right, I got a job to download a backup of a site, and upload it on another server for 80$ or just posting 25 links bought me 10$. http://www.vworker.com/RentACoder/DotNet/Default.aspx?txtFromURL=AId_7642411
Isn't that kind of market highly competitive? I would imagine there would be hundreds of people way more skilled then me. I'd have to learn heaps more before jumping into there wouldn't I?
And $10 or $80 is alright, but it's not anywhere near enough to be worth the effort… I'd have to be able to get at least $100 a week.
macfarlanet wrote: Isn't that kind of market highly competitive? I would imagine there would be hundreds of people way more skilled then me. I'd have to learn heaps more before jumping into there wouldn't I?
Depends on the job. Most jobs require some decent programming knowledge. Some are more simple.
And $10 or $80 is alright, but it's not anywhere near enough to be worth the effort… I'd have to be able to get at least $100 a week.
It doesn't take a week to post 25 links or to backup a website.
Before you can really do anything, you need some decent programming skills. No offense, but you know shit all right now. Also, as a personal recommendation try to stay away from MS languages unless your job forces you to learn them. Especially VB, for christs sake. Learn C(++), Python/Perl, and possibly assembler. Unless you're a very skilled designer, XHTML and CSS aren't going to bring you anywhere interesting. Learn to code before you bother going out for a job.
However, if you're looking for information on what the job market is like, then:
a) I live in Australia, what kind of opportunities (if any) are available? Look around. If you're looking for something non-internet based, why are you expecting us to know? You know where you live better than us.
How much can realistically be earnt? This really depends on the job you are getting. The "freelance coder" description you offered doesn't explain much.
c) Are certifications necessary or favoured? Again, this depends, but usually certificates are only strongly favored in system administration jobs, security penetration, etc. The type of "code monkey" jobs don't really need a cert, but it definitely doesn't hurt.
d) What is the best way to learn? Just learn from the web? Books? Face-to-face? University? Best way to learn programming? Books. Definitely. Everything I've learn has been from ebooks or physical books. I find it easier to focus on a physical book, but each to their own.
e) Is there any way to fast-track it? I don't wanna be stuck studying for years, I need money and something to do with my time. Programming is not that hard if you actually enjoy doing it. You sound like you want a quick and easy way to make money, however.
The bottom line, best way to get a good understanding is to go to a job-search site (ie: workopolis, or the Australian equivalent) and take a look at the existing openings. See what's required and so on. Check out vworker aswell, you'll see quite a few people are actually willing to pay through the nose for trivial jobs.
I hope the information I've provided will be of some help, and that I've covered all your questions. If you have any more, just ask.
Before you can really do anything, you need some decent programming skills. No offense, but you know shit all right now.
None taken
Also, as a personal recommendation try to stay away from MS languages unless your job forces you to learn them. Especially VB, for christs sake.
Yeah, (grumble) wasn't my decision I was trying to get the teacher to teach C(++) or similar. I'm learning Python atm.
Learn to code before you bother going out for a job.
That's the plan.
Programming is not that hard if you actually enjoy doing it. You sound like you want a quick and easy way to make money, however.
Everyone wants a quick and easy way to make money, but that doesn't exist. No, I'm just looking for the straightest path to get to what I want.
Thanks for the help.
techb wrote: [quote] Yeah, (grumble) wasn't my decision I was trying to get the teacher to teach C(++) or similar. I'm learning Python atm.
Be glad its Python. Visual Basic is the only language offered here. If you want to get closer to C/++, learn to use ctypes in python.[/quote]
I think he was referring to VB when he said it was the only language offered.
goluhaque wrote: Yeah, also, a majority of the jobs are web-related, so, learn some of those languages, and in early stage, bid very low.
Right, I completely forget to include PHP and MySQL in my recommendo-list-of-languages-to-learn. Learn those for sure.
@Macfarlanet - No problem, and good luck.
stealth- wrote: [quote]techb wrote: [quote] Yeah, (grumble) wasn't my decision I was trying to get the teacher to teach C(++) or similar. I'm learning Python atm.
Be glad its Python. Visual Basic is the only language offered here. If you want to get closer to C/++, learn to use ctypes in python.[/quote]
I think he was referring to VB when he said it was the only language offered. [/quote]
Ah… Didn't re-read the original post.
Speaking of programming, Hack A Day submitted an article I sent them. This isn't one of my projects, but something interesting I found.
After thinking about it, a job in programming, Java is a must to learn. I can't tell you how many times I missed out on money because I don't know Java.
yeah, people still use Java a lot. For example, in IBM, java is used exclusively for a lot of their applications like Sametime, Notes, etc.
so some people might say Java is dead, but a lot of people are still using it for professional use, and I think you can request to learn Java for your course, techb.
And a lot of companies use VB.NET since they migrated over from VB6 years ago, so apparently that's worth looking into as well.
fuser wrote: yeah, people still use Java a lot. For example, in IBM, java is used exclusively for a lot of their applications like Sametime, Notes, etc.
so some people might say Java is dead, but a lot of people are still using it for professional use, and I think you can request to learn Java for your course, techb.
Damn, didn't know that. Always thought that learning JAVA would only help me with learning the concepts of OOP better. Thanks for the knowledge.
fuser wrote: … and I think you can request to learn Java for your course, techb.
They did teach Java for a while before I went there, but the teacher retired and now VB is the only language offered. The guy teaching it has only written one app for a hospital, that's it…. Also he did this several years ago, so he is learning with the rest of the class. He can't really answer my technical questions either.
techb wrote:
They did teach Java for a while before I went there, but the teacher retired and now VB is the only language offered. The guy teaching it has only written one app for a hospital, that's it…. Also he did this several years ago, so he is learning with the rest of the class. He can't really answer my technical questions either.
Our teacher gave us VB.NET and gave us a tutorial for VB6. Didn't realise VB.NET was different :angry: Had to work out the differences ourselves.
MoshBat wrote: [quote]fuser wrote: yeah, VB.NET and VB6 are two radically different things. "lunacy" comes into mind when you were given vb.net and thought using vb6 methods. "Waste of fucking time" comes to mind when you were given VB.[/quote]
yeah, and that too. But a lot of companies use VB.NET to develop their applications, so familiarity with VB.NET is considered to be a good skill for most employers, cuts down the costs needed to train you for familiarizing yourself with VB.
spyware wrote: [quote]fuser wrote: yeah, and that too. But a lot of companies use VB.NET to develop their applications, so familiarity with VB.NET is considered to be a good skill for most employers, cuts down the costs needed to train you for familiarizing yourself with VB.
Name three companies.[/quote]
Charleston's Woman's and Children's, CMAC General, and TRG help center.
To be honest, at least in my area, no one will care if you have every certificate out there or if you have your PhD in Computer Science if you cannot speak in a manner that normal people can understand. That was the advice given to me at my last interview. His exact words were something like this… "Damn kids, I'm sure you know what you're talking about, but I don't" I managed to land the job by reminding myself that I was talking to a couple of older guys who are afraid of technology. I use C# and am the only programmer for a fairly large company. I have no certifications, I don't even have a single class that I have taken, not even at the high school level. Read a lot of books, learn how to interact with a SQL database. Most of all, talk so that other people can understand, at least the general idea of, what you are saying.
wired_al wrote: To be honest, at least in my area, no one will care if you have every certificate out there or if you have your PhD in Computer Science if you cannot speak in a manner that normal people can understand. That was the advice given to me at my last interview. His exact words were something like this… "Damn kids, I'm sure you know what you're talking about, but I don't" I managed to land the job by reminding myself that I was talking to a couple of older guys who are afraid of technology. I use C# and am the only programmer for a fairly large company. I have no certifications, I don't even have a single class that I have taken, not even at the high school level. Read a lot of books, learn how to interact with a SQL database. Most of all, talk so that other people can understand, at least the general idea of, what you are saying.
that's good advice, one that is often repeated but rarely taken heed of. But still, in most cases they require you to have some sort of certification to show them, since most companies I know require a certificate before going for the interview.
macfarlanet wrote: Isn't that kind of market highly competitive? I would imagine there would be hundreds of people way more skilled then me. I'd have to learn heaps more before jumping into there wouldn't I?
And $10 or $80 is alright, but it's not anywhere near enough to be worth the effort… I'd have to be able to get at least $100 a week.
There is a realistic danger of being outsourced. And you're right, there are tons of people more skilled than you. There's always a bigger fish, which is why it's important to present yourself properly. Make friends with people you want to work with. And look at other resumes done by well paid people in the field. You could make that much with web developing, if you can get the work. Do a couple sites for free, and do a good job. Along with a resume, you need a work portfolio of your best work only. If you off to make a site for a company for free, the response will probably be something like "What, you're crazy enough to do this stuff for free? Awesome!"
At least a little formal training is always nice. I imagine that xhtml, css, js, vb.net, php, and at least some basic networking experience would be a nice little package. I think web developing, computer repair, and file recovery are all jobs that you can easily do on the side / free lance.
And yes people use VB. It's been dumbed down so that a wider variety of people can use it.
There's lots of other fields out there too you know. I decided that I didn't want to start a programming career because I'd probably be working in a closet until the day I got outsourced to india. So, I'm studying digital forensics and information security. We get to talk to people IRL =P
fuser wrote: [quote]wired_al wrote: To be honest, at least in my area, no one will care if you have every certificate out there or if you have your PhD in Computer Science if you cannot speak in a manner that normal people can understand. That was the advice given to me at my last interview. His exact words were something like this… "Damn kids, I'm sure you know what you're talking about, but I don't" I managed to land the job by reminding myself that I was talking to a couple of older guys who are afraid of technology. I use C# and am the only programmer for a fairly large company. I have no certifications, I don't even have a single class that I have taken, not even at the high school level. Read a lot of books, learn how to interact with a SQL database. Most of all, talk so that other people can understand, at least the general idea of, what you are saying.
that's good advice, one that is often repeated but rarely taken heed of. But still, in most cases they require you to have some sort of certification to show them, since most companies I know require a certificate before going for the interview.[/quote]
In my computer hardware class there was one of those guys that wanted you to know that he knew everything about everything. The teacher said "You want to get an A in my class? Make it one day where your lab partner doesn't come to me telling me he wants to punch you in the face."
I'm studying digital forensics and information security
Hmmm… that sounds intriguing… tell me more?
In my computer hardware class there was one of those guys that wanted you to know that he knew everything about everything. The teacher said "You want to get an A in my class? Make it one day where your lab partner doesn't come to me telling me he wants to punch you in the face."
Hahaha I think there are people like that in every field ay
information security is ethical hacking. Every 4 years it is re-packaged though. It's also the same as information insurance and cyber security. I guess hackers aren't sexy anymore =(
digital forensics is officially a science like chemistry, but it is rather loosely guided. Depending on state law, they need to act like any other competent person in their field would (there is no set formula). The 2 main sources of work are court cases because lots of cases have electronic evidence that needs to be examined, and businesses. Their job is to thoroughly examine all evidence in a forensically sound manner (preserve the evidence). They make a lot of money, but the stakes are high. Generally people facing child porn charges will do anything they can to avoid it, including hire incompetent digital forensics experts and really scummy lawyers, or claim that you're unethical/changed the data. If you get any kind of criminal record, you'll probably have to go back to school.