The Awkward State of Being Newbie
Is it just me or are hackers really unapproachable? I'm a newbie and seems that other people's expectations are very high for new people. I don't really know much about programming, and I've never really successfully brute forced anything. I could really benefit from having a mentor, but elite hackers are extremely intimidating.
I was wondering if anyone else had experienced this problem or could possibly explain why hackers seem so aloof. If you are an experienced hacker I would like to hear about your impression of newbies and help me understand why you have such high expectations for us.
They're not really "unaproachable," just expect you to perform as well as you can. That means asking smart questions and giving all relevant details, not postulating your own opinion when trying to solve a problem unless it actually makes sense, and generally just being smart.
If you're intimidated, then that only lessens your ability to communicate. I have plenty of experience of digging myself holes and just going deeper and deeper to try to impress somebody… Just stay honest and true, and say what you think.
Above all, DON'T BE A NOOB. You're probably not a noob; your post was phrased well. A hacker's "rudeness" is most often not rude, it is only interperated that way. Think of it as "critical" and just open up, and maybe they will too.
If I've got this totally wrong, somebody come and correct me lol
The idea of a hacker being 'unapproachable' depends on the way you present yourself. If you tell us you have some experience but can't explain any of your knowledge, it reveals that you really don't grasp the concepts of what you say you can do. Never claim to do something you can't, or you will be expected to do things that you are incapable of doing. In asking for help, do not type in shorthand, and do not type in leet, or beg for assistance. Make your future mentor want to teach you, and more importantly understand fundamentals before you ask someone to assist you.
Above all, DON'T BE A NOOB.
Q: What if he already is one? Should he fake it, and not get any knowledge, or should he run around saying "734(h m3 h0w 70 h4(k!".
The easiest way to learn, for a hacker, is themselves. Teach yourself! No ones can teach you more than you can teach yourself. NO ONE!
Read, and PRACTICE over all things. And only then can you be a hacker, since a hacker is usually driven to excel through his curiosity. After that, you'll be able to address other "hackers" properly, and in respectful way.
Asking them for help is just so infuriating, repetitive, and vague! That's why "n00bs" get flamed, so easily and quickly.
So some work on your OWN first, then run around asking for help (which already exists –> it's the fucking INTERNET!)
netfish wrote:
Q: What if he already is one? Should he fake it, and not get any knowledge, or should he run around saying "734(h m3 h0w 70 h4(k!".
The easiest way to learn, for a hacker, is themselves. Teach yourself! No ones can teach you more than you can teach yourself. NO ONE!
Read, and PRACTICE over all things. And only then can you be a hacker, since a hacker is usually driven to excel through his curiosity. After that, you'll be able to address other "hackers" properly, and in respectful way.
Asking them for help is just so infuriating, repetitive, and vague! That's why "n00bs" get flamed, so easily and quickly.
So some work on your OWN first, then run around asking for help (which already exists –> it's the fucking INTERNET!)
and this is why netfish is my pope
Can't let you get last post again johnjuan :p
but yeah, Google is the hacker's best friend. There're some pretty good sites out there. I didn't know that w3schools even existed until a year ago; I learned html from pagetutor.com at first (rofl!)
Learn a few code languages, then see what you can and cannot do. Improve your weaknesses, reinforce your strengths, and you'll be rollin'!
And yeah, I like spyware too :p
But system_meltdown intimidates me a bit… mainly because of a recent post in which I "made the most hypocritical statement in the world" regarding Vista, Firefox, and Firefox Portable Ed.
There's always someone who wants to help though. If you need help with anything pertaining to javascript or general Windows stuff, let me know… Contrary to my sig, I'm not a very skilled Linux user yet… mainly 'cuz my parents won't let me have internet in my room… IDK why the hell not lol, but they're a bit… odd…
Sorry for bumping this but I have to say something regarding this topic.
Hackers aren't angry, child-eating, raptor-like creatures. We are humans. You may see some of "us" as, rather unapproachable because we tend to judge.
Not your skin color, not your religion and we don't judge your opinions. We judge skill. If someone talks about topics he/she doesn't know anything about you can expect a flame. If someone is being rude, or refuses to phrase questions in such way they are readable and relevant, yeah, we flame.
But we are friendly, talk with us about computer related things, read some tech-news and hang out with us on IRC/MSN. Actually learn something from other people, absorb everything you see. Don't be a fool, shut up and learn for a second. When you reach the level you are "reply-button" worthy you will know, and we will know. And everyone knows it's alright.
So just stick around and learn. And learn some more.
spyware wrote: Sorry for bumping this but I have to say something regarding this topic.
Hackers aren't angry, child-eating, raptor-like creatures. We are humans. You may see some of "us" as, rather unapproachable because we tend to judge.
Not on your skin color, not on your religion and we don't judge your opinions. We judge skill. If someone talks about topics he/she doesn't know anything about you can expect a flame. If someone is being rude, or refuses to phrase questions in such way they are readable and relevant, yeah, we flame.
But we are friendly, talk with us about computer related things, read some tech-news and hang out with us on IRC/MSN. Actually learn something from other people, absorb everything you see. Don't be a fool, shut up and learn for a second.
So just stick around and learn. And learn some more. Well said. And at Richo : Not just jargon, the whole ESR's "http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/". Saibine, actually, they're not. But no one can stay calm, while people gets dumper and dumper (I do not mean you or anyone directly). Hackers are not aliens, they don't eat particular food, they don't follow a special religion. And as spyware said, its being judged by skill; Learn, learn, and learn (http://catb.org/~esr/faqs/hacker-howto.html"). Why always people start with questioning? Why doesn't people try first, then ask.
Before you ask :
- Try to find an answer by searching the archives of the forum you plan to post to.
- Try to find an answer by searching the Web.
- Try to find an answer by reading the manual.
- Try to find an answer by reading a FAQ.
- Try to find an answer by inspection or experimentation.
- Try to find an answer by asking a skilled friend.
- If you're a programmer, try to find an answer by reading the source code. And, for sure, maybe some (or maybe more than just some), full of themselves, maybe because they have reach a high level of hacking, so they see all others are noobs, and maybe also because there are many "lower than noobs, which is 'dump'" keep asking : "Can you teach me how to hack? May you help me to get my friend's MSN's password?", and much of stupid questions.
When you reach the level you are "reply-button" worthy you will know, and we will know. And everyone knows it's alright. Wise.
Why does everyone think google and wikipedia are going to help you to become a hacker?
They can give you information, sure. They can provide you with some "brain-support". But they don't give what you need: Hacktivation.
Are you motivated? Are you driven, by inspiration, a dream perhaps, or a nice gaze into the future? Are your eyes guided through tons of pages, your hands typing while thinking of what lies ahead and your mind is drifting through a non-comprehensive database full of chaos in your own mind.
Are you going to gear up and storm the enormous virtual mountain, are you going to climb those hills of underground documents, those little tricks, those great tweaks. Are you going to sit behind your computer, open up your favorite text-editor and actually DO something that makes a DIFFERENCE? May it be helping out a local hospital, hacking the gas-station or pranking the NASA, it doesn't matter. Are you struck with inspiration, do you see the invisible? Do you flip the page of the PDF and read some more? Do you read through old topics, speak with people, learn from people?
Do you? Then do it.
spyware wrote: Are you motivated? Are you driven, by inspiration, a dream perhaps, or a nice gaze into the future? Are your eyes guided through tons of pages, your hands typing while thinking of what lies ahead and your mind is drifting through a non-comprehensive database full of chaos in your own mind.
Are you going to gear up and storm the enormous virtual mountain, are you going to climb those hills of underground documents, those little tricks, those great tweaks. Are you going to sit behind your computer, open up your favorite text-editor and actually DO something that makes a DIFFERENCE? May it be helping out a local hospital, hacking the gas-station or pranking the NASA, it doesn't matter. Are you struck with inspiration, do you see the invisible? Do you flip the page of the PDF and read some more? Do you read through old topics, speak with people, learn from people?
Do you? Then do it.
That had to be quoted; might even ought to be stickied. Just simply awesome.
spyware wrote: Why does everyone think google and wikipedia are going to help you to become a hacker?
They can give you information, sure. They can provide you with some "brain-support". But they don't give what you need: Hacktivation.
Well, motivation is the greatest part of it, obviously. Motivation defines your target as a tangible reality, and a desire to fulfill that target (whether beneficially or maliciously) provides that motivation and keeps failure, at any point, from being an option.
However, research makes that desire possible. I could compare it to most of the people I was, and am, in college with… They sat there and drudged through, lazily waiting for the degree. There was little desire in their methods… only a patient waiting for completion. Those people are the ones that are struggling to make it in their field and, similarly, you will struggle as a "hacker" if you wait for it to happen. You have to make it happen.
You have to want, if not feel the NEED, to learn, and you have to make use of the tools that are available to you. Don't be lazy, don't relax for a moment… every waking moment gives you the opportunity to learn something new.
spyware wrote: Why does everyone think google and wikipedia are going to help you to become a hacker?
They can give you information, sure. They can provide you with some "brain-support". But they don't give what you need: Hacktivation.
The idea is that you give someone the way to get knowledge and if they have the right mindset (hacktivation) then they will go out their and get it, if they dont have "hacktivation" then they fail.
spyware, my respect for you has grown after that post lol ^^
to learn to hack, you first have to learn to learn. get used to google and wikipedia, as well as lots of tutorial sites. As someone(cant remember who, short memory) said above, we hackers have a sort of sixth sense as to when someone has achieved the mental state of a hacker. You can tell by the way they talk and the way they act.
[/unity speech]
try to pick up what you want to learn from the environment around you(net), and if you have a very specific question ask someone. despite common newbie belief, having a mentor does more harm than good in the long run. you begin to use the same style in programming, hacking and learning as they do. and never ask something as vague as "please teach me C" or something like that. find out what you want to learn from various "starting up" guides, and google for tutorials/tutorial sites on that subject. e.g. i wanted to learn AJAX, so i googled "ajax tutorials".
hope that helps :) sorry bout the essay lol
Not a single person here is unapproachable.
There's just many more wrong ways to "approach" then there are correct ways.
Before you ask anything, spend a long time, I'm not talking twenty minutes on google, I'm saying anywhere from a day to a week trying things out and looking things up. Really dig deep, you know how the librarians always tell you to use multiple resources? They're right. Use books, the web, references, and THEN, finally, if something is still unclear, use the human resource.
This is not high school Algebra 1 class. No one person will put a textbook in your hands, give you exercises to hone your skills, and test you to keep you on your game. That's all up to YOU. This is pure independence. You've been given possibly the largest intellectual playground imaginable through the internet, it's time to make use of it.
<3z
well personally (<<anti-flame measure) my lack of social skills is due to the fact that i fiddle with my computer rather than talk to people. my communications skills are based on replying to forums and emails and talking on Teamspeak..
but if you ask REALLY nicely (say please AND thank you) you might just get some information from the "evil" web denizens..
from experience i think people begrudge all the effort they put into acquiring knowledge, and i for one really take offence when someone PMs me asking me to explain something that i had to go and research and practice and perfect, especially if its written in l33t. if someones not willing to spend the time to type out their damn words, im definitely not gonna spend the time explaining the "secrets of hacking" to them. there is none. secret of hacking > knowledge acquisition. learn things and you will prevail.
but if you ask me (or anyone) in a clear, concise, well layed out, interesting, thoughtful way we will help you. i dont believe in just posting a link to google, coz that lazy. if you genuinely want help i will try to help you.