The non-atheist test

Response to the atheist test at http://www.hellboundhackers.org/forum/viewthread.php?rowstart=40&forum_id=19&thread_id=9046#74411

This test is rather simple, yet quite difficult for "believers".

The question is: Who created god?

If you have an answer on that question, the next question will be: Who created the creator of god.

And so on.. bla bla bananas etc etc.

sorry but i couldnt miss this…a believer is called a theist (not trying to criticize or anything)

necr0six wrote: sorry but i couldnt miss this…a believer is called a theist (not trying to criticize or anything)

With "believer" I mean, of course, a person who believes in some kind of god. Personally I never use the word "theist". Ah well, maybe it'll clearify it to some.

im an atheist but sure i'll try to rationalize god for the sake of a meaningless forum thread. this is the best i can come up with, im very tired:

if god is all that is and was then god must have existed before everything, including time, if you believe, like me, that time is infinite then god must have existed outside of infinity. if infinity is everything then it must contain itself which is impossible, therefore something must be able to exist outside of infinity, god, and his/her/its creators if they exist.

DarkMessiah wrote: im an atheist but sure i'll try to rationalize god for the sake of a meaningless forum thread. this is the best i can come up with, im very tired:

if god is all that is and was then god must have existed before everything, including time, if you believe, like me, that time is infinite then god must have existed outside of infinity. if infinity is everything then it must contain itself which is impossible, therefore something must be able to exist outside of infinity, god, and his/her/its creators if they exist.

Who created existence outside infinity :ninja:

You could go on for hours but I don't think there is a solution to the question "What started all of this?".

spyware wrote: Who created existence outside infinity :ninja:

You could go on for hours but I don't think there is a solution to the question "What started all of this?".

Are you saying someone someone created nothingness? O.o

[offtopic] Nice sig spyware :happy:

jaggedlancer wrote: Are you saying someone someone created nothingness? O.o

Actually, yes. If what we see (this universe, this world, this existence) is everything, there must be nothing to define everything aswell.

yes i agree with jaggy on the sig…

The existence of God cannot be proven or disproven… all this does is causes a few of us to argue with the several thousand atheists on this site… no matter how many different ways you look at it until someone can prove beyond a shadow of a doubt the beginning of the universe you cannot disprove God.. and until either the Throne Judgment, or God just stepping down on the Earth, could you conceivably prove God

It doesn't do us any good to argue this point… The atheist keep pointing that religion is as old as people are.. this is simply because everyone wants to know the beginning… where they came from, as long as Religion has attempted to prove God, Science has attempted to destroy Him

Maybe I should clearify the fact that I don't believe in a god either.

Well, that's it, clearified.

<—– Agnostic.

i'm an atheist too. here more wood to the fire =)

spyware wrote:

With "believer" I mean, of course, a person who believes in some kind of god. Personally I never use the word "theist". Ah well, maybe it'll clearify it to some.

Well, believer who is one who believes that God/ALLAH is one (not born-nor created), believes in the prophets that God/Allah has sent to us (Mohammed, Jesus, Moses) And to believe in the afterlife (a second life we will live after death which in it God/Allah decide if you enter heaven or hell, depends on your 1.) believing 2)making good things/constructing in life…

Bah… give me some earplugs please, just let everyone live their lives just as they want to live and try to be as nice to people as you think they deserve. I'm a pure atheist but I don't care what people are.

I have never understood why people who believe in different things have to argue all the time. Why not just decide if you like or dislike people for who they are instead of what they believe and try to respect that the other one wants to pray once a week or that he maybe don't want to join you in church cause he doesn't believe in the same thing as you.

We Where All Created Equal…….Just Some More Equal Than Others

IceCube wrote: Bah… give me some earplugs please, just let everyone live their lives just as they want to live and try to be as nice to people as you think they deserve. I'm a pure atheist but I don't care what people are.

I have never understood why people who believe in different things have to argue all the time. Why not just decide if you like or dislike people for who they are instead of what they believe and try to respect that the other one wants to pray once a week or that he maybe don't want to join you in church cause he doesn't believe in the same thing as you.

1.We're not arguing, we're discussing. 2.I'm not forcing anyone on what i said. 3.I like all kinds of ppl. 4.Everyones free, has brain, and his free life/thoughts. 5.I dont go to church, i go to mosque, i'm Muslim…

Thanks

you, know, this is the first time i've seen a thread like this that isn't pure rubbish with heaps of flaming. must be the higher-than-average intelligence of computer hackers. :P

it's really impossible to prove the existence or non-existence of god. you can try, but you'll rarely be able to sway people's beliefs. so, believe what you want, who really knows what is right anyway?

i, for one, am an atheist. too many inconsistencies and illogical things in the bible (or other books), and god seems just so violent and bossy. i can not and will not be able to believe, my mind just screams NO!!!!

macfarlanet wrote:

it's really impossible to prove the existence or non-existence of god. you can try, but you'll rarely be able to sway people's beliefs. so, believe what you want, who really knows what is right anyway? Ok, try :)

well Mido i believe you and i may be in relatively the same opinion here… albeit different religions entirely but the existence of God we both defend ^_^

i personally can't be bothered, but there's plenty of sites like this one around the web:

http://godisimaginary.com/

johnjuan728 wrote: well Mido i believe you and i may be in relatively the same opinion here… albeit different religions entirely but the existence of God we both defend ^_^

I agree B)

my arguement against the existance of god.

god is all powerful, all knowing, all good and everywhere correct??? yes according to the bible.

Because he is all knowing it is likely that he is detached from time as he would know everything thats going to happen before it happens and stuff so that would be a pretty pointless waste of time (geddit?) as he would not benefit from living (or existing) through events he knows inside out in what will happen.

Apparently he is all powerful but if that and the idea that hes all knowing and detached from time is correct how come it took him 6 days to create earth?? and how come he needed to rest on the 7thy if hes all powerful???

If hes all good then why does he allow evil to happen as im sure he with his infinite power could kick lucifers butt somehow. If he really was all these things then we would be always happy and content.

If he really is so good then why does he make girls always seem to play hard to get even if they like you and why do people like George bush exist?? (i'm sure hes satan with his brains removed as hes evil yet impossibly dense)

I'd like to see some christian or the bible answer those questions and not use the whole "its part of gods greater plan in which we cant comprehend because its beyond us" excuse as thats just basically saying "no we cant answer you questions but we'll give you an iritating answer to divert from the question"

he needed to rest on the 7thy if hes all powerful??? This part isn't correct, and it is from what changed in Bible

God let the Devil to do so, to test us, will we follow him, or follow God's religion. In Quran Allah says "We didn't create humans and Jin, only to worship Allah"

http://www.translatedquran.com/

mido wrote: This part isn't correct, and it is from what changed in Bible

how do we know that particular part isnt correct in comparrisson with others?? got it!!! its all wrong so that particular part is incorrect along with the rest bof the bible

ITS not correct cuz its not logical that the GOD who has all power keys, take a rest… think about it

yea but why would god just tell one guy about all his teachings, surley thats a bit dodgy, why doesnt he just tell the whole world by himself, and why doesn he "answer" prays when ppl pray

Alright, back to the topic.

Isn't it possible for something to just have Always Been? Why does everything have to have a start, and an end. This is how I feel on the whole topic of God being created (yes, I am a Christian). The human mind is incapable of comprehending the thought of a God being created. People like the thought that humans are completely superior and assume that they can understand everything. The human mind has limits to what it can comprehend. But then again, how can we know that our own brain has limits. Ahhh, well, I get the feeling that this is going a bit off topic.

Cause Mohammed was chosen, Elite of the humans, And aaaaas i said before, he is testing us… God Do answer prays, but after that you believe that he is only the one Allah and Mohammed is his prophets and the other prophets he answered but not talking…remember that god- anything you think of he will be different, cuz our brain is too weak in comparison with HIS Greatness… He answers us by doin' things…he loves to hear his believer always praying…

As far as I'm concerned, no one is elite on earth.

We are all rookies of life.

Yep, we all are equal except prophets (including Mohamed/Jesus/Moses) Who has been chosen by God to tell us the msg The Message is "No God But Allah"

ok so why, if he has all this power, does he/she constantly alow the shocking viloence and killings that occur. why doesnt he/she stop innocent people dieing.

you may argue that he/she is testing us

but come on some of the things you hear…" 2 year old raped " , "two ten years olds kidnap a 3 year old and beat the shit out of him"

its disgusting and shocking and just plain wrong, so do these things happen

The day after we will die is called "judgement day" Allah will judge us, on how and what we do in the worldly ends (first life)

mido wrote: Yep, we all are equal except prophets (including Mohamed/Jesus/Moses) Who has been chosen by God to tell us the msg The Message is "No God But Allah"

I would like to point out the fact that Allah = god. Allah is no name, it's a word, and it means "god". So basically you are saying "God = God".

Who knows, maybe god is a cow, or a sheep. Or a cockroach ;). Who knows?

could be anything indeed

So was Jesus lying when he said he was the son of God? @mido not atheists

Maybe the story about god is a story to scare us, and make us behave like "they" want.

posibly, suppose thats why in islam you cant draw or represent allah right? keeps the ambiguity there

yep, GOD = ALLAH but ALLAH ISN't A COW OR A SHEEP AND DON'T SAY THIS GOD will be upper all of our thoughts (i mean the shape, etc) Why did you say sheep? Sheep are from GOD/ALLAH's creation… They also worship Allah… Sheep are less-minded than us. Allah gave the Humans the honor, which is the 'brain' Thank you :)

mido wrote: long story

Which source of information did you use to obtain this information?

UTTER SHIT!!!!!

And when are you gonna answer my question?

well allah isnt really fair, i mean some ppl get shitty brains some ppl get good ones :-)

My Quran and Sunnah (Mohammed's talks), Both told me about Islam and older religions

The strongest creature on earth is not a human, mido.

So you were brainwashed by a book??

Now find some real evidence….

Case closed

spyware wrote: The strongest creature on earth is not a human, mido. I did not say that Human is the strongest creature… If you mean when i said "honor" i mean the brain then… God is the strongest/Greatest But his creatures(not just human, i mean animals/plants/etc etc…) are not same in rank…

I'm not brainwashed by a book, its just, i didn't find anything rejects my logical thoughts, and found everything my brain can accept….

what about dolphins?.. how do you feel about the almost certain existence of life on other planets (given the fact that there are so many and we have visually identified planets similar to earth on constitution) these and other questions were all raised before you started participating on the topic and you never gave your views on those..

@ jesus lying by saying he's the son of god. that's what seperates christians from muslims and jews, christians accept the same books and prophets but believe jesus was really god that came down to earth, while the others consider him just one more prophet and are still waiting for god to come visit us,

that's why other religions joke about christians being always asking for forgiveness,. because we (human race) killed jesus..

Then you have a fucked up mind…

Your opinions are invalid

Go back and stone women

mozzer this is the second post that's trying to turn this into a flamewar. was that comment pointed at me?

it's really great that we're discussing such a delicate matter and actually have ppl defending both sides, but if you don't refrain from those comments it'll stop. don't you think most of us wanted to scream that at some of the posts here? lol calm down a little

sakarin wrote: what about dolphins?.. how do you feel about the almost certain existence of life on other planets (given the fact that there are so many and we have visually identified planets similar to earth on constitution) these and other questions were all raised before you started participating on the topic and you never gave your views on those..

@ jesus lying by saying he's the son of god. that's what seperates christians from muslims and jews, christians accept the same books and prophets but believe jesus was really god that came down to earth, while the others consider him just one more prophet and are still waiting for god to come visit us,

that's why other religions joke about christians being always asking for forgiveness,. because we (human race) killed jesus..

Well, i'm not with you 100% And about planets: That not important, why do you care about other planets? What will you get if you knew theres other lives?

And for all the rest, i repeat, its wrong, i'm sure :)

sakarin wrote: mozzer this is the second post that's trying to turn this into a flamewar. was that comment pointed at me?

Do you think you're the one making stupid comments or could it be mido…. take your pick

mido wrote:

Well, i'm not with you 100% And about planets: That not important, why do you care about other planets? What will you get if you knew theres other lives?

And for all the rest, i repeat, its wrong, i'm sure :)

if their were life on other planets would those life-forms have the same god?

well, as i said, its the GOD, who created UNIVERSE …

mido wrote: well, as i said, its the GOD, who created UNIVERSE …

Oh, so that's the truth because you say so? Or because someone wrote it in a book? You don't have proof, so all your arguments are invalid.

spyware wrote:

Oh, so that's the truth because you say so? Or because someone wrote it in a book? You don't have proof, so all your arguments are invalid.

his beliefs are based on faith i would presume

so its believing without proof…just having that "gut" feeling if you will

i dont exactly know if thats his exact thought process but that is it or (most) theists

:)

you say god created the universe, then you say it doesnt mater taht we humans what to find life on others. well surley it would be great to me " other creations of god"

No, man, ive proofs, 1.)i said allah wrote quran 2.) prophets 3.) my brain

mido wrote: No, man, ive proofs, 1.)i said allah wrote quran 2.) prophets 3.) my brain

That's not proof. 'Cause:

1. Maybe allah didn't know for sure too.
2. Maybe the prophets didn't know for sure.
3. So how can you know for sure?

its all downhill from here on.. lol

Ok, i'm thinking with loud voice now, if you believed me, and there will be afterlife, god, heaven/hell, if i'm right, you will lose, if i'm wrong, i won't lose…

mido wrote: Ok, i'm thinking with loud voice now, if you believed me, and there will be afterlife, god, heaven/hell, if i'm right, you will lose, if i'm wrong, i won't lose…

True. Y'know, I am a daredevil. I think I will take the chance.

Now that I think of it, Mohammed (and jesus, and almost every important "good" character in religion) himself was quite a daredevil too ;)

i'm with you :) But not with "daredevil "

mido wrote: i'm with you :) But not with "daredevil "

Jesus gave his life for his ideas (if the story about jesus is true). I think that falls under the daredevil catogory.

@mido, you have the right to your own opinion and sooooo do we, the reason this debate is going on is because it seems taht you cant accept taht people dont believe and allah

Yes a valiant effort you have Mido.. but there won't be any convincing of them… i applaud your efforts though :happy:

so you mean he convinced you right?

@spyware: Youve started thinking like i mean :) @mitz247: I accept all of your thoughts guys :) i didn't force anyone to hear me…am i wrong?

He doesnt have to convince me… I already believe in God… ^_^ I'm not in the same religion but the efforts are the same so I stand with Mido on this issue :D

@mido. if you say you do then tahts great. it just seems by your response that you dont

johnjuan728 wrote: Yes a valiant effort you have Mido.. but there won't be any convincing of them… i applaud your efforts though :happy: Thanks you got me, finally, lol

So mido… do you agree with implementation (a Islam thing everyone else)

heh, i kinda cant gotcha, can you specify more please?