The Atheist Test
We came across this mini gem on a bus, it's pretty funny and uses bananas to prove god. i cut some stuff out…
The theory of evolution of the Coca Cola can. Billionof years ago, a big bang produced a large rock. As the rock cooled, sweet brown liquid formed on its surface. As time passed, aluminium formed itself into a can, a lid and a tab. milions of years later, red and white paint fell from the sky,an formed itself into the words Coca Cola…12 fluid ounces." Of course my thory is an insult to your intellect, because you know that if the Coca Cola can is made, there must be a maker. If it is designed, there must be a designer.The alternative, that it happened by chance or accident, is to move is to move into an intellect-free zone.
The banana – the atheist's nightmare Note that the banana: 1is shaped for human hand 2has outwars indicators of inward contents: Green-too early yellow-just right black-too late 3has a non-slip surface 4has a tab for removal of wrapper 5is perforatedon wrapper 6bio-degradable wrapper 7is shaped for human mouth 8has a point at top for ease of entry 9is pleasing to the taste buds 10is curved toward the face to make eating easy To say that the banana happened by accident is even more unintelligent than to say that no one designed the coke can.
do you know any building that has no builder? "… …"painting that has no painter? "… …"car that didn't have a maker?
Im bored of typing, if anyone wants the rest PM/email me
DarkMessiah wrote: although if this omnipotent being has been justified with logic then how can anyting be out of the range of what logic can define?
true but the idea that most portray as god has too many contradictions and flaws
ill just say 1 which im sure many have heard:
if god knows all then he knows the future…if he knows the future then he knows what he will do…if he knows what he will do he will do then he has no free will…if he cant see what he can do then hes not omnipotent
i do believe in (some) kind of god i just dont know what it could be because i dont think that my human mind can conceive something of that stature
and i hate religions they are too angry and alot of times use scare tactics to get people to believe
DarkMessiah wrote:
The banana – the atheist's nightmare Note that the banana: 1is shaped for human hand. as are most objects around its size lets see uhh, hamsters, coke cans i could go on 2has outwars indicators of inward contents: Green-too early yellow-just right black-too late like all organic edible things, same can be said for most fruit 3has a non-slip surface how come in cartoons they are notorious for having characters slip on them, well i suppose the slippy bit isnt the surface. so many other things have non slip surfaces aswell 4has a tab for removal of wrapper the tab sometimes wont open and its a stalk anyway 5is perforatedon wrapper so… 6bio-degradable wrapper they take ages to break down 7is shaped for human mouth as are other things 8has a point at top for ease of entry that sounds a bit dirty 9is pleasing to the taste buds i know people who dont like them 10is curved toward the face to make eating easy ** depends how you hold it, it might curve away if you hold it differently** To say that the banana happened by accident is even more unintelligent than to say that no one designed the coke can. it didn't happen by accident, all those things are the result of evolution do you know any building that has no builder? a cave has just gone on market in england apparently "… …"painting that has no painter? no "… …"car that didn't have a maker? a banana isnt a painting or car
if the bana didnt have those adaptations it would have died out as it wouldnt have been eaten and its seeds not spread around.
DarkMessiah wrote: 1is shaped for human hand 3has a non-slip surface 7is shaped for human mouth 8has a point at top for ease of entry 9is pleasing to the taste buds 10is curved toward the face to make eating easy
Them ones made me laugh xD Anyway just because it was designed dosent prove God…it was the person who desighed it who designed it so God had nothing to do with it in my view :happy:
Actually…the banana didnt look like that a few thousand years ago… the banana was domesticated by some dude along time ago and the banana evolved and adapted. you can see here in this video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aLqQttJinjo&mode=related&search=
There are actually only 4 banana plants on the planet. People tend towards ones which suit them and therefore they survive.
@Coca-cola - You clearly haven't read 'The Blind Watchmaker' or have any intelligence.
Evolution happens for two reasons
Natural Selection Mutation
Only the mutations which suit the environment survive and therefore you coke can is fucked. Does being red give it any environmental advantage? NO….
Now STFU
mozzer wrote: There are actually only 4 banana plants on the planet. People tend towards ones which suit them and therefore they survive.
@Coca-cola - You clearly haven't read 'The Blind Watchmaker' or have any intelligence.
Evolution happens for two reasons
Natural Selection Mutation
Only the mutations which suit the environment survive and therefore you coke can is fucked. Does being red give it any environmental advantage? NO….
Now STFU
amen
that paint without a painter and building without a builder. is considered one of the best arguments to prove god exists.. i've heard it on more than one debate and i always think the same.. how does not being able to explain everything because of loss of data, gives credit to a theory that has those same flaws and an whole bunch of them even worse.?
it's so stupid to try and defend the possibility that there is no god. it should be the other way around. try to prove there is one. better yet start bracing yourselves for the next question. because if someone can indeed give reasonable doubt god existence the same questions still apply. who made god?
bah. religion has it's positive aspects. it's the little people's psychologist and it also aliviates the fear of death, that everyone experiences at some point on his life. but still the bad points are even worse. it teaches intolerance and it's above the law.
I also believe in a god, but not the one they want me to believe in! I think that if we can't explain something that doesn't mean that something doesn't exists…it just means that we still can't understand it. I also think that god you can read about in holy books may have been useful in the past to spread some rules in a very efficient way (actually, that became the fear which is the first application of a structured religion), and it can also be useful to stop thinking and wait for things to fall down from the sky. A god can exists, but not that easy! Anyway we are pretty far from determine what god is or maybe someone will came out soon with the right answer, we can't know. Anyway there have been a lot of impatience in the past centuries, with people coming out with answer and claiming the exclusive, you know. Better approach something we can solve.
uhhhh…. random chance?? ok it seems mad but if you look at it logically- the chance of a planet being warm enough but not too hot and with enough mass for an atmosphere is quite low. the chance of the right random occurances to create "intelligent" life is extremely low but if you look at the scale of the universe then it has to happen somewhere. They found basic microorganisms on mars so the chance of life occuring isnt as low as we thought. Its just the right conditions to be able to allow that life to develope.
We consider ourselves more intelligent than animals and especially plants because we can imagine stuff and we have more developed brains but are we really as intelligent as we think?? I dont think so as we are constantly fighting each other. If we used our almighty brains to work out that maybe it isnt beneficial for the survival or our species to kill each other then we might be abel to call ourselves smart. Your arguement says that god made all this. If thats the case then if i was god id be pretty embarrassed as the 2nd most powerful nation: america (dont sas its the 1st as china is more poweful) is led by someone who looks like a chimp and is probably lower on the iq scale than a chimp. If you made a world like earth would you want make it so that the leader of the 2nd most powerful nation is so intelligent he stood up in some world trade conference or something and informed everyone that 80% of americas imports are from foreign countrys.
If god made the world then i think he should be sacked
"who made god?"
That isn't the point. The fact is that we don't need to know that. I believe that science can be intrusive and in some cases destructive. We shouldn't know everything about the world around us. Don't forget we do not own it. I find that atheists (no offense to anyone here) in general tend to think of everything the wrong way. You cannot measure God. Science cannot prove God exists. Faith proves that God exists. There a lot of destructive articles and videos like this one http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jk6ILZAaAMI
Are used to lure people into thinking (in my opinion I'd go as far as saying) irrationally. My little brother typed optical illusions into youtube and got the above link. I personally think the world today is perverting my little brother's mind. The phrase "Oh my God" is now allowed on TV any time of the day. No matter what you try to say, this is using God's name in vain, yet it is used casually even in children's programs. What comes out of his mouth every two seconds? you guessed it. But I (and we, my parents) can't isolate him from the outside world, so what do we do? We can't do anything, and frankly it is sad…
s0l1dsnak3123 wrote: God's name in vain, yet it is used casually even in children's programs. What comes out of his mouth every two seconds? you guessed it. But I (and we, my parents) can't isolate him from the outside world, so what do we do? We can't do anything, and frankly it is sad…
isolate him? :o its not that sad its just human nature to repeat stuff they've heard fro example if you try counting how many times people say "yeh know". everyone does it!!! even the two princes on tv. dont blame him for being human and let him make his own choices. If you try make choices for him he wont like it and will resist.
koolkeith12345 wrote: isolate him? :o its not that sad its just human nature to repeat stuff they've heard fro example if you try counting how many times people say "yeh know". everyone does it!!! even the two princes on tv. dont blame him for being human and let him make his own choices. If you try make choices for him he wont like it and will resist.
I didn't mean it like that. I meant i (we) can't hide him from these words that encourage him to copy. And also, what are the atheists doing advertising their views on youtube? Isn't that making choices for other people?
no and how can you say athiests advertise their viewpoints! christian controls most peoples lifes in the uk whether they are christians or not. Look at the laws!! they are all based around christianity which is ok mots of the time. Anyway its just presenting their viewpoint so that other people can look at the different views and decide in what they believe. Personally im a strong athiest but i dont go advertising it or get into arguements with christians about god unless they start it.
out of curiosity what denomination are you??
who made god is a valid question on the context i used it. my point being if its valid to say an organism so perfect as a child is just not explained by evolution and natural selection so there must be something above. it should be only fair that science responds using the same rules. if you have a theory for life development even if it's not backed up by years of experiments that demonstrate everything claimed by it(using particle accelerators we proved how simple cells developed) then say it.
one thing is for certain the world wasn't made in 6 days, man wasn't the first being, living in Eden and waiting for dinossaurs to die so he could come out,
pretty much any religion (has any political movement) if obeyed by everyone would make the world a better place, what we call moral values come from them, and that's fine.
but i have trouble understanding ppl trying to argument god's existence.
if you believe it cool. you probably are happier than me, you don't fear death and you accept life as it is. but there's no logical argument to convince anyone to join your belief other than fear of death
i dont think that theres any evidence for god but if he turned up and prooved he was god then i would accept it though it would be as weird as hell. Heres a arguement saying god dosnt exist
there is evil because god is not powerful enough to stop it, he is either too weak which prooves he isnt all powerful or the next part where there is evil because god is powerful enough to stop it but dosnt know about it, he is not all knowing which leads on to the last part: he is powerful enough to stop it and knows about it but chooses not to. He is not all good.
choose one: not all powerfull, not all knowing, not all good. or he dosnt exist
good and evil definition varies with each person, i really think that's not a good aproach. if god came down from whererever ppl would still question him. we would want to know who made him. and we probably would like to study him.
it's in our nature. our generation isn't used to not knowing. lol everytime someone asks anything i don't know i use google on my cellphone.. y maybe not all of our generation but the guys like us. in so much contact with computers and technology in general. it's become harder to accept anything without proof
s0l1dsnak3123 wrote: Science cannot prove God exists. Faith proves that God exists.
Well, actually "faith" doesn't PROVE something exists, it shows YOU beleive in it. Just because I beleive in dinosaur-eating mutated apes who can fly, doesn't prove they exist ;) It doesn't disprove it, but it also doesn't prove it.
system_meltdown wrote: Just because I beleive in dinosaur-eating mutated apes who can fly, doesn't prove they exist
brilliant analogy.
there is no evidence that god exists, this makes it hard for me to understadn why people spend countless hours praying, cgoing to church etc when they dont know if its for anything.
i am also an atheist. for god to exist he must live outside of time and space, therefore he doesnt have a creator.however, i guess that this would meant that he couldnt interfere with our universe so therefore couldnt have created it. meh, hopefully the stuff at CERN (which my cousin is writing some of the software for!!!) can explain in great detail the true origins of life etc.
on the other hand, if beliveing in god makes people happy, then it doesnt really matter if (s)he is real.
just my two cents << wow first time ive actually said that
if beliveing in god makes people happy, then it doesnt really matter if (s)he is real.
believing in a god is all good and fine I agree. Until it starts affecting others who don't believe the same. Like the Inquisition, or President Bush saying god told him to goto war. Right now. In multiple places on earth. Someone is suffering intolerable pain, because they believe in a different god than someone else. It's not O.K. Not to mention the way Religions control the governments. The only judge in some cases of court…is the actual judges interpretation of what "GOD" would want.
necr0six wrote: hopefully the stuff at CERN (which my cousin is writing some of the software for!!!) can explain in great detail the true origins of life etc.
When you learn what they are doing at CERN then speak again on the forums…. until then
Perhaps we should have a public IRC debate on this… however, we will formalise it… me vs religious person. 1 on 1… anyone else can watch, but I guarantee you will see a slaughter.
im sorry but what utter shit… the entire theory of evolution states that the fittest, best designs survive, its like trial and error.
Bananas taste nice SO they are eaten and the seeds spread, the ones that tasted of lettuce or something shit died out cos nothing ate them and spread the seeds…
I'm not totally decided on whether god exists or not, but im inclined to say no at the moment. Maybe one day a miracle will happen, until then… Mother nature FTW.
lukem_95 wrote: no, but slugs aren't the target audience of bananas.
target audience? wtf?? bananas dont have a "target audience". If you mean creatures it wants to get eaten by then its anything so long the seeds come out intact.
bad phrasing and it seems you really dont know much about bananas. HBH's 1st banana noob?
this arguement is just an endless loop. no one yet can deffinetly prove one or the other. i for one dont really belive in god i for one thing the theory of evolution is much more convincing then the earth magically being created in 6 days or any other "story" from other religions.. but hey who knows.
they have to do with part of a well documented theory on creation that when compared to religion's answer really make thinking of a god (on religious terms) seem kinda silly.
and again discussing religion/god on a logic way is always going to end up like this.. and it doesn't mean we think religion should be erradicated. it serves it's purpose
how can you say athiests advertise their viewpoints!
I have proof, type atheism into google. http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/7468/atheismdv2.png
christian controls most peoples lifes in the uk whether they are christians or not.
That just isn't true. The leading government in both Scotland and England say that the UK is a "multicultural society".
Look at the laws!! they are all based around christianity which is ok mots of the time.
All new laws are meant to be completely unbiased. Laws are being changed all the time, and are re-worded to make them unbiased.
out of curiosity what denomination are you?? I am a protestant christian.
A quick reply to your first post, where you stated that a banana is created with logic (not by nature) because it has several easy-to-use "enhancements".
If nature creates 1000000000000000 different fruits with different (read: uncontrollable) randomly chosen "specs", there is a chance that nature provides a fruit with enhancements seemingly made by something other then nature itself.
I think nature proved itself a worthy opponent to god (if such god exists). You can't prove the existence of god with a banana.
Nature is pretty intelligent itself, doubt that intelligence and then I think you are the dumb person here.
koolkeith12345 wrote: [quote]s0l1dsnak3123 wrote: I am a protestant christian.
Hope im not stereotyping or anything but i suppose you would notify the admin or something instead of defacing a website. Imagine the irony of a catholic hacker :right: i wonder what the priest would say in the confession box[/quote]
1: Catholic != Protestant. 2: He'd probably say "Hey, you hacked something??? Let me touch you!"
Heres a theory me and a friend were discussing, i just thought i'd throw it in while we're all discussing religion.
if you believe in the multiverse theory or causality then this paradox will make sense to you. it can be used to disprove existence of everything living including God or to prove God's existence depending on how it is used.
OPTION 1 okay, so the multiverse theory states that there are unlimited universes/worlds. it stands to reason that some of them must be uninhabited, therefore what you essentially have is an unlimited amount of uninhabited universes/worlds and so if you take the number of inhabited worlds and call it n then n divided by infinity is as close to 0 as you can get meaning the average population of the multiverse is 0. so we are all, in theory, the figment of our own or someone else’s imagination. if the multiverse population is 0 then God cannot exist and since He/She/It created the multiverse, the multiverse cannot physically exist, hence nothing exists.
OPTION 2 Consider everything previous but this time take into account that if there can be infinite uninhabited worlds then there can be infinite inhabited worlds, so n can be infinite as well, this means that when the sum infinity divided by n is performed the answer is 1 meaning that we are all figments of this one entity, the presumed God.
koolkeith12345 wrote: [quote]s0l1dsnak3123 wrote: I am a protestant christian.
Hope im not stereotyping or anything but i suppose you would notify the admin or something instead of defacing a website. Imagine the irony of a catholic hacker :right: i wonder what the priest would say in the confession box[/quote]
he'd be against it of course the pope is a white hat :D
@ the "very large post": wtf does that have to do with anything? you conjured an entity that is composed of everything. how does that translate into a conscious being? i realize we at the moment only consider living things stuff based on carbon structure but the whole intelligent being is also a human concept and if you start talking about anything else this topic will lose the very little sense it still has..
Hm, a religious debate on hbh? Before i even begin, i pull my own theories from multiple religions/philosophies. Some of which are: Atheist Nihilism Order of the Nine Angels LaVeyism (very little, too hypocritical/bullsh*t for me)
I can't exactly remember the viewpoints expressed and what's currently being battled without re-reading all of this.
Anyways, for god theory, i believe he could have existed. I believe that we could have been created by someone else, but then god could have been a product of evolution as well. Each person has the power of "god" in his/her hands. We can both create and destroy.
Just as long as we're battling religion in general i can continue into any points to a further extent if wanted. But, if we dwelve into the christianity aspects of this, well, i believe that the blackplague has some good ideas, if you know what i mean…
the best theory about god iv heard is this:
god started off the universe much like you would light the fuse on a firework. Now its in motion hes sitting back and enjoying the biggest reality tv show type thing and watches all sorts of stuff like exploding stars, other planets with life getting sucked into black holes and all that stuff
i dont beleive it but if i were to believe in god……
DarkMessiah wrote: Heres a theory me and a friend were discussing, i just thought i'd throw it in while we're all discussing religion.
if you believe in the multiverse theory or causality then this paradox will make sense to you. it can be used to disprove existence of everything living including God or to prove God's existence depending on how it is used.
OPTION 1 okay, so the multiverse theory states that there are unlimited universes/worlds. it stands to reason that some of them must be uninhabited, therefore what you essentially have is an unlimited amount of uninhabited universes/worlds and so if you take the number of inhabited worlds and call it n then n divided by infinity is as close to 0 as you can get meaning the average population of the multiverse is 0. so we are all, in theory, the figment of our own or someone else’s imagination. if the multiverse population is 0 then God cannot exist and since He/She/It created the multiverse, the multiverse cannot physically exist, hence nothing exists.
OPTION 2 Consider everything previous but this time take into account that if there can be infinite uninhabited worlds then there can be infinite inhabited worlds, so n can be infinite as well, this means that when the sum infinity divided by n is performed the answer is 1 meaning that we are all figments of this one entity, the presumed God.
Someone doesn't understand what infinity is
Infinity is just infinity. The number itself is not an constant, because the number always is larger then everything, even itself. The only thing constant about infinity is it's always larger then everything.
The only thing stopping infinity is time (?), because when infinity is progressing time is also progressing.
Or something.. idk.. bananas.
well more or less back on track here. I myself do not believe in god. Im a proud supporter of the evolution theory and all that however, I do believe that some form of divine/supernatural begin created the universe. Althought the big bang theory makes sense it is rather flawed… The theory states that there was a large explosion that sent matter in all directions blah blah blah. but what exactly exploded? and where did it come from? why did it explode ect. Meh it all makes my head hurt :-\
z3ro wrote: uhh the egg did. An older species evolved and laid said chicken egg.
uhh no it didn't. Your basically saying the chickens predecessor gave birth to a chicken which is too sudden.
The way it would have happened is small organisms give birth to their young. The young slowly gain a outer layer for protection as the young lacking this protection would have died more easily. As the organisms went through whatever changes to get to a chicken the outer layer or shell would have slowly developed to become thicker and the young inside would become more dependent on the shell.
It makes it hard to define when eggsactly (bad pun) the outer layer becomes a egg so you just say it happen gradually over a long time so neither came first.
im sure god dosnt exist or if he does he has a sick sense of humor or neglects mankind.
and he isnt all powerful or he wouldn't have needed to rest on sunday, lazy is what it is, he could have remembered to make the crust completely solid so we dont have earthquakes and volacnoes and possibly not allowed midges to breed.
z3ro wrote: well more or less back on track here. I myself do not believe in god. Im a proud supporter of the evolution theory and all that however, I do believe that some form of divine/supernatural begin created the universe. Althought the big bang theory makes sense it is rather flawed… The theory states that there was a large explosion that sent matter in all directions blah blah blah. but what exactly exploded? and where did it come from? why did it explode ect. Meh it all makes my head hurt :-\
ive heard that they believe it was a collision of 2 objects…2 gigantic planets maybe?:)
you do realize that no one will ever be able to answer that.. we can always ask if "that" caused the explosion what caused that.
are there really ppl here that believe in both god and evolution?
if we consider universe near infinite do you think maybe more than one rock developed life on it's surface? if so those aliens have the same god as us?
what if earth is like a dust particle floating around planets that would be as big as ours is next to a dust particle.
an alien living there could inhale and exhale earth and never know, would the god they believe in care about us?
what if dolphins believe in god too? is their god more real than ours?
I like the theory based of einstein's equations proving space was convex. that the actual blast that gave motion to what we call planets and stars. is going on a big circle and it'll eventually come together at the end creating the big ball again..
it's got a nice feeling to it..
sakarin wrote: you do realize that no one will ever be able to answer that.. we can always ask if "that" caused the explosion what caused that.
are there really ppl here that believe in both god and evolution?
if we consider universe near infinite do you think maybe more than one rock developed life on it's surface? if so those aliens have the same god as us?
what if earth is like a dust particle floating around planets that would be as big as ours is next to a dust particle.
an alien living there could inhale and exhale earth and never know, would the god they believe in care about us?
what if dolphins believe in god too? is their god more real than ours?
I like the theory based of einstein's equations proving space was convex. that the actual blast that gave motion to what we call planets and stars. is going on a big circle and it'll eventually come together at the end creating the big ball again..
it's got a nice feeling to it..
K, I believe that evolution was by God/Allah, If you can't get me, watch sky…
Watch sea… Watch Dolphins themselves
What will you notice…? They had been created by ONE God? I don't think that nature made itself…
sakarin wrote: you do realize that no one will ever be able to answer that.. we can always ask if "that" caused the explosion what caused that.
are there really ppl here that believe in both god and evolution?
if we consider universe near infinite do you think maybe more than one rock developed life on it's surface? if so those aliens have the same god as us?
what if earth is like a dust particle floating around planets that would be as big as ours is next to a dust particle.
an alien living there could inhale and exhale earth and never know, would the god they believe in care about us?
what if dolphins believe in god too? is their god more real than ours?
I like the theory based of einstein's equations proving space was convex. that the actual blast that gave motion to what we call planets and stars. is going on a big circle and it'll eventually come together at the end creating the big ball again..
it's got a nice feeling to it..
when i was religious i strongly believed in evolution as well as god…basically because evolution is fact
although i have strayed away from the belief in the Christian/Islamic/whatever…ect idea of god as in he cares specially about humans and the such
i still do think that something created what we call the universe and that thing could be omnipotent or not…but i also do not think that that god that we think of created existence…i just think it triggered something that caused the universe to begin…
even IF there is a god i cant think of a reason that that god would take special interest in us…on the grand scale of things we are nothing…i think humans use god to feel better and to explain things…and to be less scared of death…and when someone goes against that thought process then that causes conflict and war
so religion has good and bad aspects but i do not think that it is necessary to get into this heaven or hell if there is such a thing
[ps] im sorry if any of what i just wrote might have not made sense im a little out of it at the moment [/ps]
if you would like to expand on my thinking i will just ask:)
Religion is created to rule the nations. "god" being that flapped its fingers and created everything,but life only on earth,and other planets so the church can forbid us watching them. LOL Life started by accident.The main thing in universe is the birth of new stars and death of old ones.Universe expands till critical point and than converges so the new Big Band happens and all starts over.
God/Allah Manages the universe, and our lives… He who started the life… HE is the one who sent Mohammed/Jesus/Moses (Islam/Christian/Jewish) and they all call for ONE thing That ALLAH is only one, whom we must cult…
You don't know what will happen even after 1 second… Ok, and when you die, where will your spirit go…?
Note that, you won't enter heaven with nothing, no, youve to believe in god and prophets and "Reconstruction" your life
Believing in second life, doesnt make you just think that this life is worthless.
No, or there wouldn't be this life tho… But it exists for the second life.. its like a bridge which makes you reach the second life, and enter heaven
No, as i told you, he PUT us in this life to test us to believe in him and Make good things I said also that theres a End-Times
You can read this: http://al3ola.19.forumer.com/viewtopic.php?t=1587&sid=fc91200f54bb2deae47ad21da81d80c8 http://abuzayd.maktoobblog.com/?post=350123
And if the life was the way you said, then there won't be believers… Cause thers no one forced..
stupid rhetorical questions that have been asked and answered time and again… try googling a couple of the questions youve asked… as for simple answers why would you want a God that you could understand… if you could understand everything thats ever gone on your head would explode revelation comes n bits and pieces so that people have a vague reasoning to whats going on…
johnjuan728 wrote: well there isnt really a 'correct' answer on the topic as far as it goes… people will argue their idea until the end
No, man, think about what i said :) collect my posts and read them together…
and ppl won't argue… were persuading …
wow, it was the 100 post for the thread…i think it can be a reference.
Yes i dont want do argue about this. Every one should believe in what they want to. Just the last thing. No one should be forced.
Yes, in my central religious text "Quran"( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qu%27ran ) There's no forcing on religion.. We(humans) have a good brain, so why would we argue? … OOH, theres no BBcode here?
well…ok ..to the christians…MIDO says the guidlines to his faith were..
- beleiving in god
- how you lead your life
The christians would say
- Giving your heart to jesus and asking for forgiveness
- How you live your life….but basically just ask for forgivness.
So what about all the millions and billions of people who've never heard of jesus…what about the billions of people who've never heard of ALLAH. what about people like that…are they forced to suffer eternal torment just because they were'nt informed. Or does god just change the rules for them.
1nterF4ced wrote: So what about all the millions and billions of people who've never heard of jesus…what about the billions of people who've never heard of ALLAH. what about people like that…are they forced to suffer eternal torment just because they were'nt informed. Or does god just change the rules for them.
Theres a brain God has created us with it, it has the ability to distinguish right from wrong… :)
johnjuan728 wrote: The innocent, children mostly, who do not know right from wrong are not judged.. because they cannot be held responsible for their actions.. but every person that is wired with a conscience.. can and will be held responsible for what they have done here.
I 100% agree, i was gonna write this but if i did so, i would change conscience to religion
….:)
mido it's great to see someone standing up to the other point of view, but you just said we were wrong and started spiting up quotes,
there were lot's of posts with decent arguments and questions before yours that you ignored.
Jesus:"I was born, and for this I came into the world, to testify to the truth. Everyone on the side of truth listens to me." Pilate:"What is truth?" John 18:37-8
@sakarin: First: Thank you… Second: I don't think that my posts were complicated, were they? And i didn't ignore posts, ive read the thread from the first DarkMessiah's post… I didn't say "YOU ALL ARE WRONG, I'M RIGHT"….no. Read my post for IceCube here, and you will get my point :) Thank you…
http://www.hellboundhackers.org/forum/viewthread.php?forum_id=19&thread_id=9077&rowstart=0
yes i know you started posting there. i do read all the posts. in fact to post on this topic im following the other one too "non-atheist test" lol
but i and > And to believe in the afterlife (a second life we will live after death which in it God/Allah decide if you enter heaven or hell, depends on your 1.) believing 2)making good things/constructing in life…
1.) yes we know you need to believe but what's being adressed here is what makes you still belive despite all the evidence pointing to contrary. and lack of substance of that theory has opposed to evolution natural selection and medicine that combined present a nice theory for both begining and ending of life. with tests experiments and years dating back your prophets from ppl studying.
2.)how do you define good or bad? life is full of examples that teach us those two words try to simplify things that aren't simple, try to take away guilt from your actions. greater good led ppl to belive it was ok to use the nuclear bomb.
personally i think tht any religion is a story, someone ELSES story, thousands of years ago a guy named jesus was born he did this he did tht, how many times has it all be re-wrote? time and time again over and over again, whats to say tht someone did re-write it an make summin up or even miss summin out?
Why spend your life listening to someone elses story when you was put on this planet in your body flesh skin and bones to make your own story, so make it, dont try and tell everyone about someone elses story if they wanna know about it then they will but make your own
religion is a story, so is life
if your christian you may beleive in God, so be it fair play to you follow the story of his creation and of his sons life, but remember to make your own story, you could spend years and years telling another person the story of christianity or judasium or sikhism but they will only follow if they want to, why force it
in this discussion no one is Right Or Wrong because you cant be right or wrong for having an different point of view or a personality tht clashes just because of one indifference
If you believe in god or Allah or anyone else then go for it, if it makes you happy believeing tht someone else is out there then fair play, but dont make others tht dont believe feel inadiquate and the same goes for us ppl tht dont beleive what gives us the right to make someone feel stupid for something we dont believe in?
1.) Not all evidence, just look around yourself in the whole life… I'm sure that everything in the life happenes wiht God's Order.
If youve taken a farther further look in the life, you will see that all this is not important, look further …
2.) I meant by good (the action which
a) doesn't Contrary with religion b) is innocent from any sins… c) doesn't make harms for human/animal/plant/earth/atmosphere/yourself/etc etc….and all the creatures… d) in ma opinion, i see that all of b), c) are collected in a)
lol you are supposed to harm animals and plants you need to eat both, plz don't tell me it's the motive you use for killing an animal that's more noble. since no one will have the definite answer for what's noble or not someone thinking he's doing the noble thing might put a bullet between your eyes..
and that's really the problem with living your life by a book. in practice that will never happen but if you do something wrong you can always hide and say, hey it was god's will..
religion does have it's foundation on good moral values but they don't own them
you can live by those values which i do but choose not to be part of a group of ppl led by someone that by what he teaches he shouldn't lead anyone,
well, first, its not just a book, its a life way, and i don't mean by harming animals to kill them to eat, lol, i mean nuclear weapons, which destroys all that wealths, and if i did something wrong, i ask god to forgive me… If i hid from ppl to do something bad, i always think that god is seeing us, but we're not…
it is just a book, a book called the Bible, nothing more some words that some one wrote prophasising someone elses life, he who chooses to follow tht is of there own free will
why argue a point that wont change
u beleive its a way of life Your Choice
We beleive its a book Our Choice
we follow lots of things have it be music or a hero in our eyes these ppl are our gods, the people we look up to the people we idealise
you worship god, no one is taking that away from you thts your choice your point of view and your opionion, but why take our point of view away from us why try and tell us our point of view is wrong?
I-O-W-A wrote: it is just a book, a book called the Bible, nothing more some words that some one wrote prophasising someone elses life, he who chooses to follow tht is of there own free will
why argue a point that wont change
u beleive its a way of life Your Choice
We beleive its a book Our Choice
we follow lots of things have it be music or a hero in our eyes these ppl are our gods, the people we look up to the people we idealise
you worship god, no one is taking that away from you thts your choice your point of view and your opionion, but why take our point of view away from us why try and tell us our point of view is wrong?
Complete agree, but wait aminute, i was talkin 'bout Quran, not Bible(Gospel)
in essence it is the same thing, just as the bible is the hold book for christians so is the quran for muslims and the guru granth sahib for sikhs and so on and so forth
<edit> just read mido post, if you believe its different then thats your opinion and ur right to have your own opinion. i mean its a free country
mitz247 wrote: in essence it is the same thing, just as the bible is the hold book for christians so is the quran for muslims and the guru granth sahib for sikhs and so on and so forth
<edit> just read mido post, if you believe its different then thats your opinion and ur right to have your own opinion. i mean its a free country Yep, I'm sure that the only 3 books came from God, were Torah(Jewish), Bible(Christian), Quran(Islam)…
I-O-W-A wrote: fair enough, like i sed thats your point of view im not gonna take that away from you, im not even gonna disagree with you, its your choice:D
Yep, as i said and always will say "No force in religion, everyone must decide what to be on…The Win/Lose ways are both clear…
@mido fair enough, to me all the holy books just server the same purporse. to inform and guide the followers
mitz247 wrote: @mido fair enough, to me all the holy books just server the same purporse. to inform and guide the followers
And all of them have one aim, which is no god but allah.
the problem with all "holy books" like the bible, the qu'ran etc is that they are all written by men and were aimed at catering for people who dont know about science and stuff, they see something with no explanation they assume its a divine entity, look at the ancient freek idea of zeus and lightning, the bible is the same in my opinion.
mido wrote: All those holy books were written by god to us… Torah and Bible has been changed by men, But the Quran didn't God has saved it… And for the part for science, i hope you read some of it first..
read some of what the bible :right: no thanks iv got better things to do and how exactly did god save the quran??
yes quran is considered the actual word of god, transmited to Hazrat Mohammad (the prophet/author) by the angel gabriel. moslems consider this book perfect, as oposed to the torah or the bible, since this is the actual god speaking there are no mistakes and anything written on any other book or said by anyone cannot supplant what's written there,
truth be told quran has as many inconsistencies if not more than both bible or the torah. in fact there are lots of arguments on Mohammad plagiarizing stuff from the bible (like the description of the devil which is the same but only with a diferent name)
of course this discussions done by theologysts that read all those books, and studied many more to place the words on the time and place where they were written can come to the conclusions they want. can point out lots of things and even present proof, it will never matter because god said it,..
you can see the problem with this right?, quran is in my oppinion the most dangerous book of all religious books. and the one with the record of attrocities that were based on what's written on it..
i've an evidance, Compare between it and bible and torah And it has been written by God and sent to his prophet (Messenger(Mohammed)) to tell it to us http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohamed
mitz247 wrote: surley its like a chinese wisper, as time goes on the message changes ever so slightly and as a result radical muslims these days are exploiting the book and killing millions of ppl and thinking its alright, which accoridng to other decent muslims is condemed by the quran, so how can this be?
Who kills millions are not muslims, Islam NEVER said that… Islam is the peace religion, i suggest you to read more about Islam.
mitz247 wrote: yes im aware of taht , but none the less you cant get away form the fact that they claim themselves to be muslims (usually) and not other religions, so there must be a flaw somewhere
The flaw lies within the flawed minds of those idiots who kill other people (for no good reason, if there is even a reason to kill..).
The flaw lies not within religion, it lies within humanity. We (or atleast most of us) aren't capable of dealing with differences between humans. Stupid really, some of us focus so much on the differences that they forget we have so much alike.
nevertheless religion isn't without it's consequences, do you think that if we didn't have religion children would blow themselves up to kill people? .. don't answer that..
Some critics reject the Muslim belief regarding the divine origin of the Qur'an[76][77][78], and base their argument on the problems that they claim to exist in the Qur'ān, both textually and morally.[79][80]
[76] The Catholic Encyclopedia [77] "What Is the Koran?", The Atlantic Monthly, January 1999 [78] Jewish Encyclpoedia [79] The Encyclopedia of Religion, By Mircea Eliade [80] Robert Spencer. Onward Muslim Soldiers
this is from the wiki entry you posted. source n.79 Mircea Eliade seems like someone who would not be talking about something he doesn't understand..