Religion?
what is your religion? I am an atheist. And a ninja… :ninja::ninja::ninja::ninja::ninja::ninja::ninja::ninja::ninja::ninja::ninja::ninja::ninja::ninja::ninja::ninja::ninja::ninja::ninja::ninja::ninja::ninja::ninja::ninja::ninja::ninja::ninja::ninja::ninja::ninja::ninja: :ninja::ninja::ninja::ninja::ninja::ninja::ninja::ninja::ninja::ninja::ninja::ninja::ninja::ninja::ninja::ninja::ninja::ninja::ninja::ninja::ninja::ninja::ninja::ninja::ninja::ninja::ninja::ninja: :ninja::ninja::ninja::ninja::ninja::ninja::ninja::ninja::ninja::ninja::ninja::ninja::ninja::ninja::ninja::ninja::ninja::ninja::ninja::ninja::ninja::ninja::ninja::ninja::ninja::ninja::ninja::ninja::ninja::ninja::ninja::ninja::ninja::ninja::ninja::ninja::ninja::ninja::ninja::ninja::ninja: :ninja::ninja::ninja::ninja::ninja::ninja::ninja::ninja::ninja::ninja::ninja::ninja::ninja::ninja::ninja::ninja::ninja::ninja::ninja::ninja::ninja::ninja::ninja::ninja::ninja::ninja:
do i voice my opinions and possible cause a flame war? meh admins can edit / deleat if they wish
personaly i think religion is outdated. All the major religions date back to a time when man could not explain what was happening in the world around them. In modern days we have science to do that. We can prove the big bang created the universe and not some higher being. (just one of many examples i could have put here)
Personaly i like to form my own opinions and views on life rather then being told how to think / feel / act by a book or preacher.
pm if you want to discuss this, admins edit / deleat if its to much.
monk
religion, i feel, is just another way to control people.
and if you take a logical approach to life and abse your beliefs on "science".. a 'religion' based on fact, then you'll see there is no god.
it amazes me how so many people in this world can base their lifes around prinicbles that revolve around something that there is, and never will be any evidence supporting it. crazy.
in my opinion nothing good can come from religion as a collective. by religion i mean the 3 main religion that revolve around the same god. islam, christinaity, jewdism…… religions i.e hiduism/buddism etc have teh right idea, which focuses on spirituality as a whole and not around the fear of "hell" if you do something bad.
anyways, thats my attempt to provoke a healty articulate debate.
in conlusion… atheism! base your beliefs on facts and evidence.
I'm a Christian. I don't exactly like being told what to do all the time or anything, but sometimes people think the wrong way about religion, so it turns them away from it. I'm not looking to convert, or start a flame war, just saying that. And @minermonk, things like the big bang, don't you think it's possible that say something, such as god, could've created it. But instead of taking say, a billion years, it takes a year, or less. And who knows, maybe 200 years from now, people will say WE don't know what we're talking about, and that WE were wrong.
Well…Im not religious at all..but believe in karma..idk why..but i do..and, i beleive that religion has never been good, except to slow down progress of humans. In the time of the middle ages, religion was used for war, to make money, and to control how society lived. Now, religion is used to suck money out of people who are too lazy to think on their own..but i guess religion is the best thing that can be there..because if there was no relgion, there is going to be something else in its place..
Ponguile wrote: Well…Im not religious at all..but believe in karma..idk why..but i do..and, i beleive that religion has never been good, except to slow down progress of humans. In the time of the middle ages, religion was used for war, to make money, and to control how society lived. Now, religion is used to suck money out of people who are too lazy to think on their own..but i guess religion is the best thing that can be there..because if there was no relgion, there is going to be something else in its place..
freedom?
religion causes war five crusades. war on terror. iraq civil war holocaust.
anybody care to argue again that? lol
PEOPLE cause wars…not their beliefs. and that was distorted religion used for manipulation and as an excuse to do something they knew was wrong. also I'm pretty sure the holocaust didn't have anything to do with religion…but then again I don't really pay attention in history so someone correct me if I'm wrong.
and as far as the creation/big bang thing…well the universe is expanding very rapidly. so yes it must have had a beginning…but it just doesn't make sense to me that there can be a huge amount of mass in a small space and then it suddenly exploding and eventually life coming from it. where did the mass come from? the way I see it…if you look at science, we know matter cannot be created or destroyed by anything physical, and the universe must have had a beginning, so it must have been a spiritual force that brought physical reality into being. so I think there is a higher reality beyond what we can see and touch that must have brought this world into being. hmm that made sense in my mind anyways.
again this is just how I see it, not trying to pick a fight with anyone. :) feel free to disagree, I try to keep an open mind about things bigger than what I can fully comprehend.
CHRISTIAN….really think why we are here…how we got here…earth always wasn't here it was created…our lives..(all though given to us freely) we have a choice….to believe in God and accept Jesus as our savior or Don't…..I do Believe in Heaven And Hell…And i have Accepted Christ as my Savior…..well that is my opinion/Belief so ya man if you want to talk about it PM me….peace guys…
religion does cause war. u said people cause war? no religion does, who made religion in the first place? people.. who fights over land and terrority for their religious believes? people in religion. why is there so much war in the middle east right now.. religion everyone has different beliefs and their own religion.. they will fight for what they believe in even if it causes war. if we all believed in 1 thing we wouldn't have war , hence if there was no religion and just one belief.. we would get along alot more.. so think again
RELIGION CAUSES WAR FUCK YOU
religion does cause war. u said people cause war? no religion does, who made religion in the first place? people.. who fights over land and terrority for their religious believes? people in religion. why is there so much war in the middle east right now.. religion everyone has different beliefs and their own religion.. they will fight for what they believe in even if it causes war. if we all believed in 1 thing we wouldn't have war , hence if there was no religion and just one belief.. we would get along alot more.. so think again
RELIGION CAUSES WAR FUCK YOU
completely unnecessary. I state my opinion with an open mind and you try to shove your ideas down my throat…I thought the hacking mentality was all about being open minded.
why is there so much war in the middle east? because they're being narrow-minded racists, regarding those who don't believe the same thing they do as "infidels." that's perverted religion.
what the hell is religion anyway? a set of ideas? in that case everyone has religion. if it's someone's belief about god then everyone has religion. I think we need to define our terms here.
…I knew this would happen, why can't we just accept that other people believe different things than we do. if they would do that in the middle east (and in the many other instances you're talking about) then we wouldn't have all the killing, hatred and prejudice. people's beliefs aren't the problem, the problem is how people carry out their beliefs. anyways just calm down man, this is how wars get started in the first place, am I wrong?
minermonk wrote: do i voice my opinions and possible cause a flame war? meh admins can edit / deleat if they wish
personaly i think religion is outdated. All the major religions date back to a time when man could not explain what was happening in the world around them. In modern days we have science to do that. We can prove the big bang created the universe and not some higher being. (just one of many examples i could have put here)
Personaly i like to form my own opinions and views on life rather then being told how to think / feel / act by a book or preacher.
pm if you want to discuss this, admins edit / deleat if its to much.
monk
haha well put.
i dont believe in god or a higher being and all that crap. lol i thinks its just an excuse for weak ppl and can handle the thought of a 'person or w/e it is' looking over them at all times. i started reading on astronomy and stuff about the universe and lol there is no evidencea bout a god. there is evidnce about the big bang. example. if the universe has been around forever then light from every corner of the universe would have had time to reach the earth so at night if you look up the sky would be lit up from the light from a million billion (+- a few billion ;-)) stars. another example of no god. the earth will end. lol humans will one day cease to exist. the sun will explode engulfing the earth, the sun will create a molecular cloud and the dust and gas will collapse and condense, the hydrogen atoms with bounce into eachother and eventually fuse to form helium and this will keep happening the explosions pushing out and the gravity pushing it back down. eventually there is so much of this going on that the push and the gravity pulling it will eventually equal out forming a new star. of couse this takes millions of years… :-D
ne ways. religion is a dumb way of controlling people… and it works
I agree that religion has been used for controlling people and that way. But by controlling people they have also civilized people a lot. If I recall it right most of the education (when people were quite uncivilized) was started by church. Though nowadays religion in that matter is useless. People are already civilized so in my point of view there is no use trying to make them fear "hell" or something like that in order to control their behavio(u)r.
If it's their own choice and they want to believe in something just to help them live their lives then it's ok. But I don't like if it's being misused.
My opinion on this matter will most likely sound repetative based off of what other members have said… So you mind as well skip my post.
The idea of religion is based off of the need for the world to have meaning, and science is the need to understand the world. Is the universe a moral place, so that the natural order is relevant to human lives and human values; do faith and family, love and charity mirror any larger meaning than the meanings we give to them? If you ask that to someone who believes religion then they will say yes, if you ask someone who believes science, then they will say no.
There are many arguments about this that have started since about the 16th Century, I've written papers on this subject.
Basically I think its up to the person as to what they follow… But somethings to think about are, medical operations vs. faith healing, holy visions vs. brain disorder, can someone communicate through god for us vs. a crock of bull shit, language of angels vs. complete gibberish, is the earth 10,000 years old or 4.5 billion years old. did everything get created by one single man vs. evolution.
If you research any of those topics, you will find that science makes sense, and religion is based off of what you were taught to believe.
And last but not least, is there a god? Or, does it ease people to think that there is one, when they are in a hard spot in their lives.
I myself follow science, because it makes sense to me… However I also believe that even though there may not be a god, it does make it easier to say something to him when your in a hard time, such as Combat, or death, etc etc….
well i would have to agree with sirus and minermonk here.
religion does cause wars. fact. you're right in saying PEOPLE cause wars, but religion has always been a big trigger and/or reason to go off to war and butcher thousands of people.
for as long as history can remember theres been wars and conflicts that revolved around religion. crusades, the big prodastant vs catholic death matches that lasted hundreds of years in england, and still continueing in ireland. the.. sheites and the sunni's (forgive my spelling), in middle east. even the war in iraq now was blamed on religion via george bush. "god told me to goto war" is what he basically said. now america is clever, it deffiantly manipulates the religion to keep people under control to a certain degree. and if its happening now, then no doubt it was happening back in BC etc. and since then i think thats how leaders etc have seen it. its just now used as another way to turn people into cattle so you can mould them how you want. extrememists use it, cults use it, gouvernments use it.. all of these leaders who manipulate a religion, dont believe in it, they're just seen a way to control, exploit and get what they want from a group of people.
i think people nowadays have completely lost what the idea of religion was in the first place. basically a philopshy to keep people at peace and happy throughout their lifes and give it meaning. now its just used to divide people. take catholics / prodastants for instance…. ask each one of them individually and they'll say "yes i've read the bible, it teaches to love your neighbour etc etc etc"… (if they dont then they're an idiot)…. so why is it, if they all have read it and feel that way individually, do catholics decide to throw bricks at literally their neighbours house after they find out their prodastant!! its just ridiculas.
and to touch on what mindermonk said, i also think its "old" and is deffinatly falling in numbers. it was used to explain things that coudlnt be explained at the time. its human nature to be curious and want to gain knowledge etc etc, so if something comes up you cant explain you do try search for an answer just to put your mind at ease. and religion was the only way back then because there wasnt the technology to do other research.
you'll see now that religion is deffinatly falling, younger people today are more inclined to favour science and drop religion. the only time i've seen a younger person have religious beliefs is when they're parents have crammed them down their throat. and even then one of my friends for instance rejected it and couldnt see any sense in the religion.. thus now an athetist.
a while ago when the new pope was being decided, they're was debate amoungst the vatecan saying "we need a new 'hip' pope to bring back the younger people into our religion" … etc… now i thought the idea was people who join a religion is they agreed with the beliefs.. not how "hip" the leader is….. in the end they decided to go with an ex nazi.. but thats besides the point… point is: what religion changes how they run it and who's in charge just to attract numbers…. i mean wtf, should religion be a mass marketting campaign??
lol soon you'll have "Starbucks sponsors Islam!" (picture of mohammed with a starbucks all around the cities etc) …. [thats a joke btw about the pictures lol] … or "Christianity sponsored by Nike….. 'Run your way to heaven' "
anyways essay over lol. and sorry fr poor spelling, its early monring.
Atheist by choice, although christened as a child! I believe religion has no fact. Science is the way of the future and has in some way, shape or form determined our past.
I agree with religion causing war, it has been proven that all the 9/11 terrorists were doing what their 'GOD' told them, which is sick and twisted. If this 'GOD' did exist why would he send them to harm all those poor innocent people in such a horrific way?
And as a result of 9/11, much more innocent British and American solders have lost their lives at war.
Although religion is declining there is still a large number of people who still follow the major faiths. These people need to be respected even if you dont belive what they belive. comment like > 'RELIGION CAUSES WAR FUCK YOU' are only ever going to be negetive.
Religion is a sensitive subject that needs to be handled carfully, iv stopped short of what i would like to say in these forum for fear of offending someone. hopefully everyone that posts in this thread will have a similar levle of respect
Not all British and American soldiers are innocent, and there's some serious 9/11 theories going on about the whole airplane meets large buildings issue.
Both the sides of war are agressors, both are victims. Shooting people aint the way to solve conflicts, except if you completely remove (kill/nuke) one side. But I seriously hope Mr Bush won't do that, but I also seriously doubt Mr Bush brain capicity, so that could be a problem..
Mr_Cheese wrote: take catholics / prodastants for instance…. ask each one of them individually and they'll say "yes i've read the bible, it teaches to love your neighbour etc etc etc"… (if they dont then they're an idiot)…. so why is it, if they all have read it and feel that way individually, do catholics decide to throw bricks at literally their neighbours house after they find out their prodastant!! its just ridiculas.
Am I an Idiot, Mr_Cheese? Because I don't read the bible and I don't push my beliefs on others? When was the last time you heard in the news of some Catholic throwing bricks at some Protestant's house? I would think there would be a lot of that in the new if that were true, seeing as how there are 2.1 billion Christians in the world.
I don't normally talk about religion because I don't care. If you believe in God, fine. If you don't, fine. I don't judge others based off of there religious beliefs, rather on there qualities as a human being.
On the topic of war. Yes, all of those was we started over religion. It was stupid and should never have happened. But you have to look at all the wars that have ever happened. They have all been started of stupid things, generally ambition. Why war? It seems to be human nature to fight and it developed onto a large scale. But do you all realize what is going on in this thread? A fight. A large argument over religion. I guess it does start arguments. But in this situation it was started by atheists discussing weather or not wars were started over religion. To clarify, yes, yes they are.
I hope I didn't offend anyone. I just felt offended my Mr_Cheese. i don't like being indirectly called an Idiot.
Edit - Clearing up some ambiguity.
TheNewFlea wrote: Am I an Idiot, Mr_Cheese? Because I don't read the bible and push my beliefs on others? When was the last time you heard in the news of some Catholic throwing bricks at some Protestant's house? I would think there would be a lot of that in the new if that were true, seeing as how there are 2.1 billion Christians in the world.
happens every day over in northern ireland.
and if you dont read the bible and push your beliefs on others, it doesnt make you an idiot, it just makes you a bit of a prick. but if you do read the bible (which was what i was getting at)… because the bible if part of their religion, then it makes them a bit of an hypocrit/idiot if they go contriticting themselves, by saying one thing, and doing another.
some of you said there is no proof god exists then how do you explain the many mracles that have happened over the years? Science can work along with religion , science has missing peices of the puzzle that religion fills in
p.s. im muslim— like it or not
my religion is the supreme in my life and thats final
some of you also said that religion is for the old days, well its not. My religion is a way of life that does not make a difference in the new world or the old.
Hope you guys think carefully
God Bless Yall who believe and bring faith in the ones who dont.
Mr_Cheese wrote: and if you dont read the bible and push your beliefs on others, it doesnt make you an idiot, it just makes you a bit of a prick. but if you do read the bible (which was what i was getting at)… because the bible if part of their religion, then it makes them a bit of an hypocrit/idiot if they go contriticting themselves, by saying one thing, and doing another.
see Mr_Cheese my religion doesnt contradict each opther and Christianity shouldnt be the symbol for "Religion" religion is the unchanged words of God not the versions tempered by humans.
turbocharged_06 wrote: some of you said there is no proof god exists then how do you explain the many mracles that have happened over the years? Science can work along with religion , science has missing peices of the puzzle that religion fills in
p.s. im muslim— like it or not
my religion is the supreme in my life and thats final
some of you also said that religion is for the old days, well its not. My religion is a way of life that does not make a difference in the new world or the old.
Hope you guys think carefully
God Bless Yall who believe and bring faith in the ones who dont.
In my view science and religion can never be mentioned in the same sentence unless its to say how different and incompatable they are. Theres just to many examples where opinion is split between the two for them to work side by side.
I would gladly bow down and admit religion is the way foward and is correct if i could confirm any of it for myself. By this i mean christianity major events happened 2000+ years ago. i belive the islamic faith started in a cave around the year 700 (correct me if im wrong) judaism was even earlier then christianity. There have been no miricles, prohpets or mesias for any major faith since modern science has been around. This point by itself is my main dout when i consider religion in our modern times
I guess I should clarify. In my post the sentence, "I don't read the bible and push my beliefs on others" is a bit ambiguous. It is supposed to be read, "I don't read the bible and I don't push my beliefs on others". I can see how that would be misread. And I just want to clarify that I too think that people who bicker over the Catholicism/Protestantism are idiots. In the words of Rodney King, "Can't we all just get along?"
minermonk wrote: In my view science and religion can never be mentioned in the same sentence unless its to say how different and incompatable they are. Theres just to many examples where opinion is split between the two for them to work side by side.
I would gladly bow down and admit religion is the way foward and is correct if i could confirm any of it for myself. By this i mean christianity major events happened 2000+ years ago. i belive the islamic faith started in a cave around the year 700 (correct me if im wrong) judaism was even earlier then christianity. There have been no miricles, prohpets or mesias for any major faith since modern science has been around. This point by itself is my main dout when i consider religion in our modern times
Read this http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Where_did_Islam_start to clear up your misconseptions
I'm a muslim. But if any of you should know one thing,in my opinion,that science explains how everything happened.Religion,on the other hand,explains why it happened.There are points in religion i do not understand..but i'm basically a practicing muslim.But before any of us are trying to kick each other over religion,which I'm pretty sure not going to happen,Let me remind one thing,and one thing only:We are here because of our main interest which is computers.And when we compute,we discard our physical qualifications such as age,race,religion,degree,etc.If you have ever read the Hacker Ethic,you can agree that when you hack,your physical qualifications mentioned earlier does not apply to us.
ON second thought,why don't we just make Computing as our religion?we can either use Turing or a supercomputer as our god..just kidding
turbocharged_06 wrote: some of you said there is no proof god exists then how do you explain the many mracles that have happened over the years? Science can work along with religion , science has missing peices of the puzzle that religion fills in
p.s. im muslim— like it or not
my religion is the supreme in my life and thats final
some of you also said that religion is for the old days, well its not. My religion is a way of life that does not make a difference in the new world or the old.
Hope you guys think carefully
God Bless Yall who believe and bring faith in the ones who dont.
Not to be rude or anything but could you please tell me about a few of the many miracles you know of?
I don't really care about religion or anything like that as long as the religious people don't act like assholes and start to mess with other because of their belives.
oh crap not another religion thread :angry: The forum I used to go to had a massive flame war about religions, which split the whole community in half, guess what each half was - Catholic and prodestant (forgive my spelling).
I am a devout Christian and go to church every Sunday. I believe that God created the big bang. I also believe that he made up other religions (like voodoo and African religions (before they were all converted to Christians)) as a test for the earth's inhabitants. I believe that it is the churches fault that there is a decline in Christian religion. Ever since around 1940-1950, the church has ignored the styles, trends and fashions that were going on at the time. This meant that people started to find it "boring", and "old fashioned", when really it isn't. It's just that it is being taught in an old fashioned style - which no longer works. Then children started making church "uncool", which meant more and more kids didn't want to go to church. This reluctance then carried on until they were adults - hence "only old people go to church". This has caused a chain reaction, which will eventually lead to the downfall of the church in my opinion. If things aren't fixed soon it will end with the end of Christianity in Britain. I also believe this problem comes from the US, which means other countries will soon follow like an infection… it really is a bad state of affairs for religion….
IceCube wrote: Not to be rude or anything but could you please tell me about a few of the many miracles you know of?
I don't really care about religion or anything like that as long as the religious people don't act like assholes and start to mess with other because of their belives. sure read this http://www.islamicity.com/Science/iqs/sld001.htm it will show science and how the quran that is 1375 years old have proven so many things about this life.
bouncer wrote: @IceCube: If you are really interested in that, you will put some effort in some research and turbo gave you a link where you can discover it.
It was you who asked, and you got your answer, now dont be a lazy ass, click that link, and research (A real computer hacker would understand that)
If not, you are just some simple dipshit, sorry not to "offend" you :wow:
Edit, To be part of this thread, I am a muslim, I believe in 1 god, and my faith and love for god is what motivates me in life and after.
I have read everything on the site I was send to, and to be honest I don't really understand how you can call that miracles, but i think it's a question about definition. I think that a miracle is something like walk on the water or turning water into wine or something like that shit.
I don't have anything against religions, especially not muslims as I think that they have a bunch of stuff that is much better than the christians.
To settle this matter once and for all, you should all do some research into other people's religion before you jump to conclusions. Nevertheless, there will never be scientific prove for religious beliefs since they will always be merely that "beliefs". However, I do think that the core ideas( "the preservation of life" and stuff alike) are rather positive. As for the other such as miracles and the foretelling there is no way wheter we can demonstrate whether they are actually super-natural events, the conspiracy of higher beings or plain coincidences( like Nostradamus who was rather vague in his writing) "Everything is possible" as far as I'm concerned, we could all be right or we could all be utterly wrong, just bear in mind that you have to respect the others and above all "ENJOY LIFE".
PS: I believe in the impossible and that's my religion(baptised christian though XD)
Religion is hate, religion is fear, religion is war, religion is rape, religion's obscure, religion's a whore! A nice quote from the song "Cult" by Slayer, pretty much sums religion up in general, brainwashing bullshit.
More lyrics of Cult:
There never was a sacrifice
No man upon the crucifix
Beware the cult of purity
Infectious inbecility
I've made my choice. Six six six```
system_meltdown wrote: Religion is hate, religion is fear, religion is war, religion is rape, religion's obscene, religion's a whore! A nice quote from the song "Cult" by Slayer, pretty much sums religion up in general, brainwashing bullshit.
im sure a thrash metal band is the best source of opinion on such a complex subject, try and have just a little respect for other peopels belives
minermonk wrote: [quote]system_meltdown wrote: Religion is hate, religion is fear, religion is war, religion is rape, religion's obscene, religion's a whore! A nice quote from the song "Cult" by Slayer, pretty much sums religion up in general, brainwashing bullshit.
im sure a thrash metal band is the best source of opinion on such a complex subject, try and have just a little respect for other peopels belives[/quote]
Rofl@the hypocritical statement :p
And also, rofl@the sarcasm, it was lame.
I think religion is a fucking waste of time, it screws with people's minds, closes them off from the community in general, and resricts them from doing things they might want to do, but can't because it's against their religion. For instance, if there was a muslim boy around my age, I'm pretty sure he'd be wanting to get drunk and stuff due to the fact all his mates are and he wants to be sociable, but because he's been brought up in the "proper" way, he'd rather sit inside doing sweet fuck all.
Yea, finally someone who understands! high fives
Also, the amount of flaws in religious teachings and other….shit is amazing!
Take Hindus for example, they beleive in reincarnation, which is fair enough, but with the amount of non-hindus in the world, how do they know they won't be reincarnated as an athiest, or a person with a different religion?
Well too be honest, I couldn't be fucked with reading all these posts about war etc so I'll just respond to the topic.
I'm a selective Christian.
I don't have a strong faith towards god because I believe strongly in the logic of the universe and science.
Sometimes I feel like there is a God, sometimes I think it's a crock of shit.
I attend Church every now and then but mainly to hear the beliefs of others.
But however, I disagree with people changing their lives for a religion.
So in summary, I pick and choose when I want God to be on my side. As of the past 24 hours, he certainly has not!
I have always seen religion as Karl Marx did (I just didn't know his views until I read it here). "Religion is the opiate of the masses". Opiate, meaning painkiller.
You have to look at what religion does for people. Religion is a way to comfort people in need of comfort. When faced with a source of depression, the usual way to face it is by not facing it at all - denial. For instance, in the debate of the "afterlife", it is fairly obvious that there is none. Or, to say better, there is no proof for one. But, our minds can't comprehend the idea of not existing - seriously, try imagining not existing. I think by definition it is impossible.
Anywayz, so, it let's us ignore what happens after death. What else does it let us ignore?
Hell let's us ignore the fact that people who are bad but live happy lives aren't happy forever. Heaven let's us ignore the fact that nice people are screwed over.
However, religion is NOT bad… usually. As someone said, religion helped civilize humans. If people didn't fear hell, then there would be no real reason to not fuck as many girls as you could, since that is what our bodies would want us to do. the fear of hell, yes, helps control people, but that control is good, for the most part.
And, of course, religion has huge bad sides on the other hand. It is another source for contention. As to the person who questioned the Holocaust being religious, it is in a way: Christian code forbids keeping people in debt. Means no Christians SHOULD be bankers. Jewish law does not forbid this, however, so Jews were able to get rich. People hated the people they were in debt to, and the people they saw as more powerful, so they persecuted them.
I also think it is ridiculous how much religion stops science. I am Mormon by birth, and by practice until I turn 18; I live in Idaho, USA, which is right next to Utah. I recently saw this on the school forum:
this girl told me she believed in evolution a couple weeks ago…
it shocked me.
i forgot people believed in that. im not even joking, im in 12th grade n no one has told me they believed in evolution since middle school
i think it's cuz she's a freshman Not only is the fact that this senior doesn't agree with evolution appalling, but the fact that he doesn't believe others believe in it astounds me. When we live in a world that does things like say "I believe in evolution, and that god caused evolution" or "I believe in the big bang, and that god caused the big bang", all you do is limit your ability to evolve beyond those ideas.
BTW, the big bang was caused by the fluctuations in the Something Field (I don't remember the name), which both explains the amount of matter, the fact that we can't see every star in the sky, and the fact the matter continues to be created everyday (learn your physics lol).
-Istand1337
jaggedlancer wrote: Exactly, and if it turns out there is no god and crap and once you die theres nothing then all that time you could have been drinking giving/receiving oral and partying you spent in church instead then i just would be hating myself to death :happy:
But what if it turns out there is a god?
TheNewFlea wrote: [quote]jaggedlancer wrote: Exactly, and if it turns out there is no god and crap and once you die theres nothing then all that time you could have been drinking giving/receiving oral and partying you spent in church instead then i just would be hating myself to death :happy:
But what if it turns out there is a god?[/quote] "God is mercy" :P
Yeah, im support science strongly but then again even that dosent say how the universe was created but still…neither does religion, yeah some big almighty guy pops into existance and desides he wants light and flicks his fingers and there it was, the te earth, the life, bu in the bible…where are the dinosaurs? and theres absolute proof of them, so science has a huge advantage over religion. Also its always easyer to explain how than why so science is just logicler (Lol i dont know another word :() :p
[edit] well if it turns out there is a god, im not a sinner so theres a good chane im going to heaven anyway :p
TheNewFlea wrote: [quote]jaggedlancer wrote: Exactly, and if it turns out there is no god and crap and once you die theres nothing then all that time you could have been drinking giving/receiving oral and partying you spent in church instead then i just would be hating myself to death :happy:
But what if it turns out there is a god?[/quote]
Oh yes, because there's obviously going to be some superior being floating around in the sky that no one has any proof of, and that no one's ever seen, hah, chances of there being a God is as slim as an American in a parallel universe.
You can look at religion as a good or bad thing. It is easy to twist things in you mind to make them look like you want it to. For example, The war the U.S. is fighting in today (which I think is bullshit) was started because of religion. That is a bad thing. Some of the most kind and family oriented people I know are Mormon. That is a good effect of religion.
Just putting that out there.
The Flash wrote: [quote]system_meltdown wrote: Lol, what was so special about Jesus? He was the son of "God" right? But wait! I thought we were all the son's and daughter's of "God", how come we aren't special?
Jimmy Carr stand up.
"If we're all Gods children, what's so special about Jesus?"[/quote]
Heh, I like Jimmy Carr :) and I didn't steal that thing from him, I didn't even realize he said that :p
err0r33 wrote: Religion does not course war. It's the difference between people that course it.
.. And I'm Christian. I don't feel chained to my Religion. I just need to something to trust, and I find hope in my Religion.
Well I don't want to start up this argument again, but The Crusades were a series of wars between religious groups to take control of the Holy Land. Now, you say differences cause war. In this situation, the difference was religion.
I agree with system…aren't we all sons and/or daughters of "God"? What's different between us and Jesus?
Or, now stay with me here, maybe, just maybe, there is no difference at all apart from knowledge. What if Jesus Christ was able to walk on water and cure the blind and crippled just because he figured out how to do it? What if all of us just haven't figured out how to perform these miracles yet? Does that mean it's impossible?
"Argue with your limitations, and sure enough, they're yours." –Illusions, Richard Bach
For a long, long time, people thought flying was impossible. Because they thought it an impossible task, they never tried to figure out how. (Or at least they never tried hard enough)
Who says that each and every one of us is not a potential miracle-worker?
"Learn what the magician knows and it's not magic anymore." –Illusions, Richard Bach
^^ just my thoughts… ^^
–Skunkfoot
Yeah, im support science strongly but then again even that dosent say how the universe was created but still…neither does religion, yeah some big almighty guy pops into existance and desides he wants light and flicks his fingers and there it was, the te earth, the life, bu in the bible…where are the dinosaurs? and theres absolute proof of them, so science has a huge advantage over religion. Also its always easyer to explain how than why so science is just logicler (Lol i dont know another word )
[edit] well if it turns out there is a god, im not a sinner so theres a good chane im going to heaven anyway
you guys obviously have no idea what you're talking about when you talk about christianity…I was raised in a christian home, go to a christian school, etc, and I can tell you all their arguments for these sorts of things. one, jesus was [according to this belief] god incarnate, and yes he was the son of god and you are too if you're a christian, but you are an "adopted" child of god…not the same thing as being god himself (which is what jesus was)
as far as creation, the bible does state very specifically that god CREATED the universe as it is…so there's your cause for why things exist. there's just so many hole in evolution, like earth's orbit around the sun. if it was a VERY small distance closer to or further away from the sun we'd either get burned or freeze. I see order and design in the universe and that leads me to think there must have been some sort of all-powerful spiritual creative force…
also, about the "god popping into existence" thing…IF there is an all-powerful, transcendent being out there, we wouldn't expect him/it to be in the physical universe! time is part of the physical universe. so therefore god would never have had a beginning, and we wouldn't expect to see any physical evidence of a spiritual being. that's just logical.
^that's what I hear every day at school….if anyone wants to argue about the fine points of christianity let me know. I wouldn't consider myself religious though, just can't wait to go to college (REAL school…) but yeah most of you have very inaccurate views of christian belief, and if it were like you guys made it out to look like I'd be just as pissed with it…but there is NOTHING in the bible that condones killing and war for the sake of "defeating god's enemies" or anything like that.
also…if there is an afterlife where you have to be "good" to get in to heaven, otherwise you go to hell, we're all in trouble. what about when you lied to your mom in 3rd grade? what about when you commit smaller sins? idk, just something to think about.
if this offends you…get over it. nobody seems to care about anyone being offended in this anti-religion thread anyway. (I've seen more criticizing religion than discussing it)
xtrmsk8r91 wrote: also, about the "god popping into existence" thing…IF there is an all-powerful, transcendent being out there, we wouldn't expect him/it to be in the physical universe! time is part of the physical universe. so therefore god would never have had a beginning, and we wouldn't expect to see any physical evidence of a spiritual being. that's just logical.
But if god isnt physical either he still would have come from somewhere wouldnt he and the idea of the universe being infinate is only valid if time is infinate and technicly its about 99.999999999999999% impossible so it must have started somewhere, also theres more proof the big bang created it with backround radiation etc…
ut you are an "adopted" child of god.. So if were adopted then who was there before god and why did they chuck us out on the street :p
right…I have some questions about all of this…
If you were trying to control all people for the rest of time through "religion", what would you tell them? Would you tell them that the only way to get into Heaven was to blindly believe in some supernatural physical being that somehow, by the snap of his (or her) fingers, just created the whole universe? Would you tell them that they could not prove or disprove this "religion" even if they tried their hardest? What about all of the other people out their who tried to explain to them that this "religion" is just a big scam. Would you tell your believers that those people were just the devil trying to make you not believe? Would you say that if you have "faith", you'll go to heaven, and if not, you'll burn in hell for all eternity in immensely agonizing physical pain, despite the fact that your body (along with all nerves, mind you) are safe in the ground?
That's another thing that doesn't make sense to me about Christianity…
"God" seems to be rather threatening… It just seems to me that if there was or is a "God", he (or she) would want us to be happy no matter what…
Christianity however, comes with a rulebook…
Tell ya what, if you're open-minded enough, go to wikipedia, and research "The Flying Spaghetti Monster", then tell me what you think…
Very good point, thank you for noticing that.
Let me rephrase: Would you say that if they believe in what you tell them to, they'll go to heaven?
And also, aren't there some people in this world who believe that there is no "God" at all? These beliefs are faith too..sort of..faith in there being nothing after we die…
But if god isnt physical either he still would have come from somewhere wouldnt he and the idea of the universe being infinate is only valid if time is infinate and technicly its about 99.999999999999999% impossible so it must have started somewhere, also theres more proof the big bang created it with backround radiation etc…
exactly, the universe is physical, god is spiritual, not bounded by the laws of physics. I agree though that the physical world isn't infinite. so yes time and space started somewhere. think about it though, WHY does everything have to come from somewhere? if everything came from someplace else…well that doesn't even make sense, you'd be going around in a circle. I think there has to be some sort of first cause that set everything in motion. by the definition of spiritual, we would have to say that god has been around forever, something that's impossible for the human mind to fully comprehend.
So if were adopted then who was there before god and why did they chuck us out on the street
well the answer I'd hear for that would be that we were originally created as god's children and it was fine, but after the fall (when adam and eve took the fruit) sin came into the world and everything to messed up, separating the relationship between man and god.
I also strongly agree that religion has been used to manipulate and control people. think of 18th century catholicism (before martin luther)…they would sell pieces of paper to people that were supposed to get their relatives into heaven. so really all they were doing was using threats of hell to make some cash. very low and complete bs…and they even withheld the bible from the people so they wouldn't find the truth.
and "god" seems threatening because he is perfect and just. according to the bible, we are sinners and god doesn't tolerate any sort of sin….and we aren't created to be happy, we're created for god, to bring glory to him. that's what I hear at school anyways.
I'm looking into the flying spaghetti thing now…
edit: yes god wants us to be fulfilled, but according to the bible the only thing that can really fulfill us is a realtionship with him…and yes different people have different faiths, but of course it depends on what your faith is in. "faith" in the bible generally referes to faith in the fact that jesus died for your sins…
Also, the bible that we have now is far from complete…Constantine edited it to his liking a long time ago, removing whichever parts he didn't want in there…
- the bible didnt get writen till about 100 years after jesus so its like chineise whispers…things get distorted, for all we know jesus could have been a pimping gangster with flash rims and hydrolic suspention :p
system_meltdown wrote: [quote]TheNewFlea wrote: [quote]jaggedlancer wrote: Exactly, and if it turns out there is no god and crap and once you die theres nothing then all that time you could have been drinking giving/receiving oral and partying you spent in church instead then i just would be hating myself to death :happy:
But what if it turns out there is a god?[/quote]
Oh yes, because there's obviously going to be some superior being floating around in the sky that no one has any proof of, and that no one's ever seen, hah, chances of there being a God is as slim as an American in a parallel universe.[/quote] heh you crack me up system so you are saying that you only believe in things that have proof of esxistance? here is some proof God (Allah) Exists Here and islamic miracles for ice cube Here
i didnt think i would get this many replies and it the ppl that start war they are too ignorant to relize right from wrong and that they r kill each other 1 by 1 example WHAT DID THE ISLAMICZ GAIN FROM 9-11 NOTHING SO Y THE FUCK DID THEY DO IT THEY R 2 STUPID 2 DO THE RITE THING
and im a ninja :ninja::ninja::ninja::ninja::ninja::ninja::ninja::ninja::ninja::ninja: :ninja::ninja::ninja::ninja::ninja::ninja::ninja::ninja::ninja::ninja: :ninja::ninja::ninja::ninja::ninja::ninja::ninja::ninja::ninja::ninja: :ninja::ninja::ninja::ninja::ninja::ninja::ninja::ninja::ninja::ninja: :ninja::ninja::ninja::ninja::ninja::ninja::ninja::ninja::ninja::ninja: :ninja::ninja::ninja::ninja::ninja::ninja::ninja::ninja::ninja::ninja: :ninja::ninja::ninja::ninja::ninja::ninja::ninja::ninja::ninja::ninja: :ninja::ninja::ninja::ninja::ninja::ninja::ninja::ninja::ninja::ninja: :ninja::ninja::ninja::ninja::ninja::ninja::ninja::ninja::ninja::ninja:
Okay, before you start calling everyone stupid, learn how to spell a little bit. And just because you are too ignorant to see what there is to gain from terrorizing all of America, doesn't mean that there isn't something to gain from it.
And where did that little 9/11 rant come from anyway? Who was talking about that?
Night_Stalker wrote: i didnt think i would get this many replies and it the ppl that start war they are too ignorant to relize right from wrong and that they r kill each other 1 by 1 example WHAT DID THE ISLAMICZ GAIN FROM 9-11 NOTHING SO Y THE FUCK DID THEY DO IT THEY R 2 STUPID 2 DO THE RITE THING
Damn Dude, you don't have to be an asshole. Respect others beliefs. You just called 1.3 billion people stupid. I tried to take an unbiased approach to this thread, but that got messed up when Mr_Cheese indirectly called me an idiot. I am gonna go back to the objective view now.
richohealey wrote: ok. everyone here needs to go watch the jay and silent bob film: DOGMA. then come back
The Director, Kevin Smith, is a Catholic. As am I. Live and let live. Religion does not cause war, people do. All religious debates never get anyone anywhere. People use Science as something to fall back on to argue against religion. What people fail to recognise is that Science has proven itself wrong countless times in the past, but Religion has never been disproved. At the end of the day, no one will ever prove religion right or wrong, faith isn't knowing , its believing. If you have faith in God, have a good life, but equally so, if you don't have faith God, have a good life :D Peace people…
2eXtreme wrote:
The Director, Kevin Smith, is a Catholic. As am I. Live and let live. Religion does not cause war, people do. All religious debates never get anyone anywhere. People use Science as something to fall back on to argue against religion. What people fail to recognise is that Science has proven itself wrong countless times in the past, but Religion has never been disproved. At the end of the day, no one will ever prove religion right or wrong, faith isn't knowing , its believing. If you have faith in God, have a good life, but equally so, if you don't have faith God, have a good life :D Peace people…
you couldnt be any more wrong 2extreme, because religion is what people fall back on not science…religion was used as a way of coping in a time when people had no explanation for life then a higher being. im not saying that religion is necessarily a bad thing…it is just a method of coping for those too weak to accept the reality of no life after death…and solitude.
it gives people somthing to live for and in the long run makes the believers happy, for whatever reason it might be, from life after death…to a divine being looking out for us.
its actually when religion leads to ignorance that you get war.
@8 bit youre an idiot disprove anything biblical and ill consider it but yea point stands your an idiot
hitler was also a mis-led sociopathic sadist who's govern probably wouldnt have worked either way…now, do you honestly consider his opinions valid?
also, just as science has proven itself wrong, it has also proven religion wrong… and if you believe science is wrong *because *it has proven itself wrong then your giving science credibility…thus proving yourselves wrong.
Thats a nice hunk of logic right there hmmm….
the part about hitler proves my point thusfar because i said "even hitler" stating that even this.."mis-led sociopathic sadist" .. knew that God must be involved for the government to be in any way successful or efficient.
And as far as I know everytime "science" has tried to disprove the Bible it has only proven it time and time again
My birthday is the day Hitler died.
I hate fighting. I think that Hitler was a brilliant strategist in his early years, but his messed up views on pure race and religion (and all the drugs he was on) kinda fucked him up. After the whole Holocaust thing everyone hated him. And when he started losing, even his generals tried to assassinate him twice.
yea this is me not remembering that day… i wasnt saying hitler was brilliant but in war he was and hes hatred for "inferior races" was a scapegoat for the people… so as far as it goes that is pretty brilliant.. he convinced an entire country of what he wanted them to believe, talk about SE. his mistake was the same as any tyrant, he got greedy with power… and attacked russia in the dead of winter
im talking about christian, Jewish , and Islamic religion btw. in example, dinosaur fossils can disprove the bible…by proving that dinosaurs existed before humans and the bible says otherwise. theres proof of dinosaurs and other prehistoric life before human life…there's even some proof of evolution…but where's the proof of what the bible claims to have made life?
@johnjuan728 - that was aimed at 8-bit, sorry for the ambiguity :)
Where in the Bible does it say that Humans came before Dinosaurs?
@8bit your speaking of any 1 God religion then it seems… and specifically those with roots in the Bible… the Bible mentions dinosaurs in the book of Job not that they roamed the Earth then but that they did exist… and you cant disprove evolution, except with adaptation various creatures adapted to their environments to better suit their needs
in example, dinosaur fossils can disprove the bible…by proving that dinosaurs existed before humans and the bible says otherwise. theres proof of dinosaurs and other prehistoric life before human life…there's even some proof of evolution…but where's the proof of what the bible claims to have made life?
hmm can you be more specific? it seems like you're only stating that there is an example. I'm assuming you're talking about the argument that since dinosaur bones are lower in the ground than humans' that they came before humans…well um, I heard an argument against that but I can't remember it and I'm too tired to look it up, lol. I guess my argument will have to wait till tomororw. :p
No one can directly prove an unrestricted negative. but you misunderstood me newflea, the fact that it doesnt say that dinosaurs came before humans or vise versa, exactly what i was trying to get at. the only thing that it says in the christian/catholic bible is that there were animals before humans…but if i recall correctly they all gained mortality at the same time right? so why would there be fossils of animals and bacteria millions of years before that of any human?
ahh the bible also says the world was created in seven days… Thats at the beginning of Genesis
animals were not around for more than three-four (i dont remember) days before humans were..
besides surely youve done rapid fossilization in school.. weve done this in lab at school and carbon dating still hasnt been proven yet either atmospheric conditions… this is the other way to test the age of things A worldwide flood for instance can manipulate carbon and the ecosystemthis is in genesis too
maybe that helped
The Flash wrote: There is more proof of Jesus existing that Julius Caeser.
End of.
Yes, I guess that's true, there's more proof of him existing, but NO proof of him performing miricles or any other bullshit.
The only religions I have respect for are: Hinduism Buddhism
Mainly because they don't try and convert you every fucking 5 mins at your door, and they have respect for other people's beliefs, rather than being against them for not being the same religion as them, coughChristian'scough
A thing I find funny is that a lot of Christian's have problems with Jewish people, sometimes I just feel like shouting out how much of a contradiction to their faith that is, because, idiots, if there was a Jesus, HE WAS A JEW! GET IT IN YOUR HEAD!
Yes!, systems back…now the convos are gonna get intresting again :p
Back on topic though…I just do not get how killing you son is supposed to forgive all of our sins :s….So if i kill my children will i go to heaven? so what up with easter? (that was an actual question btw, i do wanna know the answer)
Note to posters: I'm not here to try and change your belief, I'm not here to get my belief changed, I'm stating pure facts and opinions, if I have offended you, well you're obviously not a very strong, faithful person, as most religions teach forgiveness :p
I just do not get how killing you son is supposed to forgive all of our sins :s….So if i kill my children will i go to heaven? so what up with easter?
I agree, and it's not just in Christianity that happened, in Judaism, Abraham (not sure how it's spelt) sacrificed his son, because he was "told" that it was the right thing to do, I mean come on, chances are he was a paranoid schizophrenic who was hearing voices.
I mean come on, chances are he was a paranoid schizophrenic who was hearing voices HAHA, yeah
And also if you think about it you cant prove christianity or science wrong coz we all have the same evidence, we live on the same earth with the same animals, the same universe, the same stars, the same trees so…except religion has a book! Does that make Harry potter true? Thats what i beleive
@jagged, rofl.
You wanna start a new religion called "potterism" with me? I think that would be cool xD we can base everything on the book, which is obviously all facts, am I right? Yes, I'm right, Harry Potter books tell the truth :)
bouncer wrote: You guys still dont stop dont you?
Harry Potter was written by a fucking old woman who decided to write the freaking book, now you 2 "jaggedlancer & system" KNOW that this has nothing to do with religions, Can you (Both 13 / 14 year old, not older then 16 at least, prove the mayority of the world wrong?) If you do, with those ages, i would give up my life.
Billions of people wrong? Billions of people "weak"? Because 1 forum with a couple of young boys are saying that they "seen the light of truth" (how ironic) Well wake up, grow up and attend more school and religion lessons, because this way, you only fuck up your life, like your lovely emo metal bands.
Yep, we won't stop. And one, I'm 15.
Two, the almighty bible, and other religious books were written by people who decided to write them too dipshit.
I go to school every day of my life, and I have Religious Studies lessons, which are a complete waste of time for someone who doesn't care for religion.
Another thing, what the fuck is an emo metal band? Emo and metal are two completely different styles of music you analfuck
bouncer wrote: system do you truelly think i give a shit about emo / metal?
You still didnt answered all of my question ehm analfuck.. (how deep and poetic choice of words)
Do you really think that the mayority of this world is wrong? And you and lagged are right? Dont make me laugh system, i always thought you was a smart boy, but you just proven me otherwise, if you cant talk with relevant arguments, then please dont talk at all.
Wrong? Not that sure. Brainwashed? Yes.
Wait a sec, I'm not "smart" because I choose not to beleive in a "God", and I choose to live my life the way I want, rather than from a book? If your idea of a smart person is someone who lets a book make their choices, they you sir, are the stupid one.
There, all questions answered :)