A call to fellow introverts
This site was designed by my girlfriend. It deals with introversion, and the need for it to be recognized as normal behavior. When you get down to it there is no "perfect mind", yet we are told to chase that image. I'm sure that this crowd can relate more than most. I think anyone who can relate to computers can understand this.
http://breakingsocialbarriers.blogspot.com/
Please, feel free to share your experiences on the site. You can always post anonymously.
COM wrote: [quote]maug wrote: "perfect mind" … told to chase that image. Huh?[/quote]
That we should always be friendly, and outgoing, and smile… Like our image reflects our mind. Probably not the best way to say it, but everyone is different, and everything is changing. So it's silly to have expectations.
-god- wrote: fairly sure any good psyche textbook will tell you that introversion isn't bad. Or good, for that matter. it is simply a name given to a personality type. Sounds pretty spot on, and then you haven't even mentioned the fact that people tend to not be 100% one thing.
maug wrote: That we should always be friendly, and outgoing, and smile… Like our image reflects our mind. maug, have people been telling you these things? Are they forcing you to do things you don't like, discriminating against you and treating you as a lesser being? Do you need us to talk to their parents?
-god- wrote: [quote]It deals with introversion, and the need for it to be recognized as normal behavior
fairly sure any good psyche textbook will tell you that introversion isn't bad. Or good, for that matter. it is simply a name given to a personality type.
wanna go find me a reference that supports your claim?[/quote]
This isn't about any one text book. It's about how people treat you for not being bubbly like a tipsy blond Californian bimbo. As if you need to mindlessly chatter to everyone you see in order to be normal. Everyone communicates differently, with different mediums. Some people have horrible public speaking abilities, but it's not like writing or the internet are useless. A dog doesn't know it's on a leash if he never tries to leave the yard.
And the American Psychiatric Association wanted to re-introduce introversion as a criterion for mental disorders in the 2013 edition. If you have any experience with mental wards, then you know that another label does not help you at all.
Edit: this isn't just a hearsay kind of thing. This is also about how our institutions like gov, education, and media punish us by assessing us badly in our careers, classrooms, and public image.
So again, please share your experience and any stories of your own on the site. Again, you can post anonymously.
COM wrote: [quote]maug wrote: That we should always be friendly, and outgoing, and smile… Like our image reflects our mind. maug, have people been telling you these things? Are they forcing you to do things you don't like, discriminating against you and treating you as a lesser being? Do you need us to talk to their parents?[/quote]
Don't be a douche…
maug wrote: Don't be a douche… Alright, fine, we'll do it your way then and sit here and talk about our feelings. I, for instance, feel that you are being overly dramatic about an issue that is not actually an issue. I feel that any truly introverted person would not stick around people like the ones you talk about long enough to care about what they have to say. I feel like you are pushing me away and do not give my attempts at communicating our issues the chance they deserve. I feel like you just do not care about our relationship anymore and no longer listen to what I have to say.
Also, I wonder, is this an exclusively American social issue or something? Because honestly, the only place I have ever run into this crap is when reading job requirements. Which sure enough does get strange when the job is about programming, but makes all kinds of sense when it's something that involves a lot of social interaction.
COM wrote: [quote]maug wrote: Don't be a douche… Alright, fine, we'll do it your way then and sit here and talk about our feelings. I, for instance, feel that you are being overly dramatic about an issue that is not actually an issue. I feel that any truly introverted person would not stick around people like the ones you talk about long enough to care about what they have to say. I feel like you are pushing me away and do not give my attempts at communicating our issues the chance they deserve. I feel like you just do not care about our relationship anymore and no longer listen to what I have to say.
Also, I wonder, is this an exclusively American social issue or something? Because honestly, the only place I have ever run into this crap is when reading job requirements. Which sure enough does get strange when the job is about programming, but makes all kinds of sense when it's something that involves a lot of social interaction.[/quote]
Whoa there, baby, cool down. the States needs a kick in the ass when it comes to interpersonal relationships involving different kinds of people. The amount of hypermasculination representing itself as emotional ambiguity IS a big problem in countries like ours, where male communication and emotional spectrums are limited to grunts and nods. Let's leave that one alone.
Otherwise, I agree.
ynori7 wrote: [quote]maug wrote: And the American Psychiatric Association wanted to re-introduce introversion as a criterion for mental disorders in the 2013 edition. WTF. I think those guys could use a psych evaluation themselves.[/quote]
Meh, Psychologists have this sick urge to try and classify everyone into nice little niches. For whatever reason they believe everyone must fit into a series of square check boxes, or they must be doing their job wrong.
ynori7 wrote: [quote]starofale wrote: THE CAKE ISN'T A LIE!
Why does no one else agree with me about this? :( I agree with you. I saw the cake at the end. It looked delicious.[/quote]
That was a midgets covered in frosting. On the other hand, these are not a lie.
COM wrote: [quote]maug wrote: Don't be a douche… Alright, fine, we'll do it your way then and sit here and talk about our feelings. I, for instance, feel that you are being overly dramatic about an issue that is not actually an issue. I feel that any truly introverted person would not stick around people like the ones you talk about long enough to care about what they have to say. I feel like you are pushing me away and do not give my attempts at communicating our issues the chance they deserve. I feel like you just do not care about our relationship anymore and no longer listen to what I have to say.
Also, I wonder, is this an exclusively American social issue or something? Because honestly, the only place I have ever run into this crap is when reading job requirements. Which sure enough does get strange when the job is about programming, but makes all kinds of sense when it's something that involves a lot of social interaction.[/quote]
I'm not a very dramatic person. I was built to chill. I'm not going to respond to your sarcasm.
If it is not an issue in your opinion, then I can only suggest that it is only not an issue for you. Saying that introverted people would/shouldn't listen doesn't really work. That's like saying black people can't feel racism from whites because they can always leave the conversation. It's the fact that they are excluded and labeled that is the problem in the first place.
If you have any experience with psychology in life, then you know it's a one-way road. Once you get that label, it's there forever. I would assume that the default prescription would either be an maoi which would turn you into a zombie, or some amphetamine. http://youtu.be/dw2ju8fL6Ns
This isn't only an American issue, but it is a more modern issue. It's only recently that people are forced to work with masses of people they do not know on a daily basis. Some people, like you COM, seem to be able to pick up public speaking and talking to strangers with little or no learning curve. That's not everyone.
If I were to change one thing, it would be how we communicate. I would hold other methods just as valid. Let's be honest, the internet and TV/radio is the real means of communication. Public speaking might get you 1,000 people tops, but that's not much really. The websites and blogs on social introversion are able to communicate their points just fine. It's explaining it to people who think they know what it's all about that is hard.
maug wrote: I'm not going to respond to your sarcasm. Funny, you just did.
Saying that introverted people would/shouldn't listen doesn't really work. That's like saying black people can't feel racism from whites because they can always leave the conversation. No, it's like saying that if I realise that I dislike a person, I just won't hang around with that person. I've used it a lot, it seems to work, more people should try it.
If you have any experience with psychology in life… That's quite a statement coming from someone who doesn't seem to have much experience with psychology at all.
Some people, like you COM, seem to be able to pick up public speaking and talking to strangers with little or no learning curve. You don't know, so I won't blame you for getting it wrong, but still, wow, you got that as wrong as you possibly could have. I've seen people who are like that, it's always sort of fascinating to watch; don't have the slightest fucking clue how to do it though.
If I were to change one thing, it would be how we communicate. If I were to change one thing, it would be what we decide to see as big issues. This isn't one of the big ones. Hell, this is an issue so small that the tiny problems like being out of milk is taking its lunch money at the playground.
Furthermore, I really don't see how you can say that this is a global issue. I gave you the benefit of the doubt since I can't possibly truly know how things are in the USA. You apparently respond with the belief that you do know how it is not only in the USA, but everywhere else as well. That's just… baffling. Hell, you even make invalid assumptions about me just to be able to say that this is an issue that I'm not aware of because I don't fit into your little category. After that, well, you've got balls to call me a douche, I'll give you that.
Here's how it is: this is only an issue if you decide to make it an issue. Otherwise, just find people who are similar to you in one or more ways, people you share interests with and can get along with. Get to know them, be friends and don't give a fuck about the rest. If you've been thrown together with people in school or work, then you have to work with people you don't get along with or even like and yeah that sucks. Here's the general consensus on how to deal with that: suck it up, it happens. Unless people are actively after you, trying to fuck with you for… not being a good speaker? Being shy? I don't really see a reason but whatever, unless they're actively after you about whatever it is that you claim they are fucking with you about, I don't see how my simple guide of giving zero to no fucks would not work. Once again, I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt because I do not live in your country. You're welcome.
[quote] I'm not going to respond to your sarcasm. Funny, you just did.[/quote] "I feel that any truly introverted person would not stick around people like the ones you talk about long enough to care about what they have to say. I feel like you are pushing me away and do not give my attempts at communicating our issues the chance they deserve. I feel like you just do not care about our relationship anymore and no longer listen to what I have to say." That's what I didn't respond to.
[quote]If you have any experience with psychology in life… That's quite a statement coming from someone who doesn't seem to have much experience with psychology at all.[/quote] I do have experience, because I have talked to psychologists and know people who have been trapped by that system even though they are perfectly healthy.
I did not say that this is a global issue on par with war and corruption and the rest. Only a modern social issue that's not limited to the US. This isn't a debate. If anyone has anything to contribute, post your story/experience on the blog.
The American Psychiatric Association wanted to re-introduce introversion as a criterion for mental disorders in the 2013 edition. If you have any experience with mental wards, then you know that another label does not help you at all.
Edit: this isn't just a hearsay kind of thing. This is also about how our institutions like gov, education, and media punish us by assessing us badly in our careers, classrooms, and public image.
I think this refutes your "just suck it up" solution. If you ignore these people you don't like, then you're being introverted. You need medication. You're sick. You're on par with criminals and lost dogs. I think we get terms like introversion, schizophrenia, and melancholia when they decide to create a catch-all term for things they don't understand.
I think Terrance Mckenna has had the best sound bit I've heard on psychology's mislabeling, and fear of exploring the mind (I have nothing against those who do explore like Jung and Freud). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZEglHjd_gUQ
maug wrote: "I feel that any truly introverted person would not stick around people like the ones you talk about long enough to care about what they have to say. I feel like you are pushing me away and do not give my attempts at communicating our issues the chance they deserve. I feel like you just do not care about our relationship anymore and no longer listen to what I have to say." That's what I didn't respond to. Actually, you did. You said that you weren't going to respond to it, thereby responding to it. If you would not have responded, you wouldn't have said anything. This means that you want to show me that I'm talking to someone who's a bigger person than I am, instead of just being a bigger person and doing instead of saying.
I do have experience, because I have talked to psychologists and know people who have been trapped by that system even though they are perfectly healthy. I guess that's always something, shame that that's the way you've had to gain experience with it though. Honestly, I'm not being an arse about that, it's a shitty system and often very awful people working in it.
I did not say that this is a global issue on par with war and corruption and the rest. Only a modern social issue that's not limited to the US. This isn't a debate. If anyone has anything to contribute, post your story/experience on the blog. That's all well and nice, except that it sort of is a debate. You see, from the start I've been wondering what issue you are speaking of since I do not see an issue. You have been damned to give me examples that would in any way show that there is an issue. In fact, I even skimmed through the "Stigmatization of Introversion" page on the blog and couldn't find a single place where there was even one decent example of how there's an issue. The closest I saw was the whole medical part of it, which only tells me that the medical and psychiatric society over there is stupider than I initially thought. As well as three minor, very generalized examples, one of which I'm not even clear on what it is, one which I've maintained since start is bullshit and one which is annoying but makes sense depending on context and is not really any big issue, certainly not an everyday one.
Still not convinced that introversion is stigmatized and viewed negatively? Simply put: no. You cannot just assume that everyone knows what you're talking about when you say there is an issue, it's you who has to inform us what the big problem here is. If all you mean is that an introverted person is less likely to be befriended or that more socially active people might shun them, then no shit, why would that not be expected with that personality type?
Edit:
I think this refutes your "just suck it up" solution. I do not see how it does. Unless a majority of workplaces and schools go out of their way to single you out and force you to talk to a doctor, then there really is no issue. Even if only a small amount does it, then you've got a shitty job with shitty management. Many people have that, if you don't get along with people or management, you quit or, as mentioned, suck it up.
No, this really isn't a debate. My girlfriend created a website for a homework assignment. I advertized it a little so she could get some feedback. This is dead-week. I simply don't have time to sit around for hours and debate.
The APA wanting to set "introversion" as a criterion for mental illness is one way how it affects multiple people. And just like someone loosing their job, it stops being an individual problem when many people say this happens to them as well. When many people testify that it affects them you can take a step back and look at things like the employment, gov, education, propaganda, and so on. Just having a label indicates that it's not an individual problem, especially a label that fits everyone into 1 of 2 camps. The point behind it all is that just because you don't want to party, flirt with strangers, or share your life's story with co-workers, that doesn't warrant a negative label.
That's essentially what's happening. And here we are, staring at computers and not even sharing our names. I thought this would be a good place to recruit some comments for my girlfriend's project.
I do understand how it's debatable, in many ways. But I'm looking for people to share their experiences/observations. When you were shot down or shut up, or when your intellectual discussion turned into shouting match like Fox News. We've all been in school, one of the most anti-individualist institutions I have ever experienced. There's got to be some good stories.
maug wrote: That's essentially what's happening. And here we are, staring at computers and not even sharing our names. I thought this would be a good place to recruit some comments for my girlfriend's project.
Simply because we choose not to tie together our online and offline activities doesn't mean that we have to be introverts. As a majority, I've actually found the hacker type to be more outgoing socially.
Personally, I agree with COM. I think that introverted people can be treated unfairly in other manners, but I have never seen being introverted viewed as a problem itself.
goluhaque wrote: [quote]American Psychiatric Association wanted to re-introduce introversion as a criterion for mental disorders in the 2013 edition. If that is not a big issue, I don't know what is.[/quote]
Yes, because everyone must be happy, witty, bright, and cheerful, or else something is wrong with them. I did not know this about the APA. I guess the fact that I like being alone makes me mentally ill. I hope I get a tax rebate or something…