What is your opinion on Park 51?
@COM : very nice post a bit long but i agree on everything said in it
and i really dont think that 9/11 was the work of muslims
i mean US has a shit load of security agencys in the world not to mention the number of spy in the world
and for something like this to slip throu, it means that eather your incompetent, or you smashed your buildings
just to many things dont add up around 9/11
i could go on but there is no point in it, all im saying is dont belive blindly in everything some1 tells you
for me it is a straight slap in the face ! however , a few victims loved ones reportedly don't care or think it is a good idea. since i personally had no relatives in 911 i cant speak for them.
for me it would be similar to building a Japanese temple on the water over the the USS Arizona
[ i am a veteran so i may be a bit bias ]
also i am a conspiracy theorist, so this goes without saying. wtf this has to be the biggest insult in history, i mean damn new york is a big place why does it need to be in the middle of the financial district, aside from the "mayor" who else that is an American is for this ?
do they get tax exemption for being a church ? would it be easier to plan another attack in a place of worship ? what will be the oversight rules ?
seems to me and im nobody that for the Muslims this would be a huge victory to abolish the American way of life, damn soccer moms
spyware wrote: [quote]tbaybucs wrote: seems to me and im nobody that for the Muslims this would be a huge victory to abolish the American way of life, damn soccer moms
I too hope that the "American way of life" will cease to exist. It's ridiculous.[/quote] why ? or which part ? you would rather have the Muslim way ? cutting off arms for stealing , stoning women to death for adultery or just for casual sex, no rules/love for humanity, or many of the other ways they disgrace man by their treatment of women and other human beings ? :P
yes i am bias :P im a shot first kinds guy ! then ask questions
nah for real tho……i could care less what ever i think doesn't matter, i might as well believe that my vote counts for the president lol
tbaybucs wrote: why ? or which part ? you would rather have the Muslim way ? cutting off arms for stealing , stoning women to death for adultery or just for casual sex, no rules/love for humanity, or many of the other ways they disgrace man by their treatment of women and other human beings ? :P
Strawmanning gets old quick.
tbaybucs wrote: true if this were the case, not like Google straw-manned Archie :P :D
My question would be [ why should they be able to build it ] there are 2 other mosque close to this area, are they not good enough ? OK , OK, Let's get this clear, this is not a mosque, it is a "community centre" open to all New Yorkers, as is being claimed. It also has a September11 memory room/area or whatever.
So now, tell me, what is your problem if someone builds excessive buildings which don;t have any use? Also, how may the creation of a mosque"…erm, sorry "community centre"destroy the "American way of life"?
why ? or which part ? you would rather have the Muslim way ? cutting off arms for stealing , stoning women to death for adultery or just for casual sex, no rules/love for humanity, or many of the other ways they disgrace man by their treatment of women and other human beings ? yes i am bias im a shot first kinds guy ! then ask questions Nothing is absolutely right, nothing is absolutely wrong. There is no absolute right and wrong. I also find this strange that the U.S. citizens don't like crimes and despise all countries which have high crime rates, and still find it worthwhile to abuse a system which is one of the world's most effective ways of stopping crime.
ok lets try it like this. lets say god forbid your parents/siblings /wife/kids were killed in a house on main street by Muslims, a few years later those people decide to build a shrine to their cause/religion in that house, a place of worship ? how would that make you feel and oh yeah the police who didn't stop them will help them build it
big stretch maybe…….
tbaybucs wrote: ok lets try it like this. lets say god forbid your parents/siblings /wife/kids were killed in a house on main street by Muslims, a few years later those people decide to build a shrine to their cause/religion in that house, a place of worship? "Those people"? That make this a poor analogy. This mosque isn't being built by the same people who committed the terrorist acts. Let's turn this around. If some Christian people killed your family and then a church was built nearby later would you find that offensive?
From what I see here, tbaybucs is mostly making points based on his prejudices and stereotypes. And what war were you involved in, btw?
The muslim world in general is not violent. For every time an incident in the middle east is shown, the rest of them are more concerned about their daily lives instead of upholding the word of god. Most of them are ditching the old laws in favour of modern laws, but in most cases modern muslim nations combined both islamic and western law.
Also, most muslims believed that if the project went through, it would prove to them that America is a tolerant nation and not against muslims in general.
Muslims are generally moderate, in fact, if it wasn't for the fact that the west screwed them over so many times since the beginning of the 20th century they wouldn't be so pissed off as they are now. In fact, most of them are against all of these "stoning people, cutting hands" kind of deal.
Sure, there's the terrorists. But any normal person with a cause can turn into a terrorist, that's why we have Irish Republicans, Basque Sepatarists, Hindu Sepatarists, Italian Neo-Fascists, Communist Revolutionaries, Anarachists, White Sepatarists, Black Sepatarists, and of course Islamic terrorists. Many of these folk are normal people who were felt they were being pushed to the edge, and decided to fight back by any means necessary.
If you noticed it, not all irish people, anarchists, or even white people are violent in general, in fact, many of them are against the violence committed by these parties. I guess building the center 2 blocks away is more offensive than having a strip club just in front of the area, huh?
fuser- i agree with ya. gulf war 90's . to see a very large part of this religion kill Mame etc for no real reason is where my anger for them comes from, however i will say that the white man is worse in every way possible they killed more native American Indians than any Muslim cause.
im 43 yrs old and that makes a huge difference, most of you guys are in probably in your 20's im guessing ?
i can see everyone's point i really can but fuser nailed it anger, friends dying for no reason etc…
Well, you saw my point of view, so I guess that makes it ok.
I understand those upset about the project, in fact, I read that many muslims themselves thought it was a bad idea (since they can already anticipate what was going to happen) and they tend to fear the worst in the future.
But if the center is built, it shows that firstly, America got over 9/11. Therefore, Al-Qaeda's greatest achievement will fall flat on their faces since most people will feel that America has nothing to fear over the terrorists, and that they are even willing to accept the fact that muslims in general are ok people.
Secondly, this shows that Americans can are tolerant, therefore defusing potential resentment against the USA in the future among the world's muslim population, including American muslims.
Thirdly, this kind of prejudice is nothing new. Throughout history there is always some kind of group which is deemed "un-American" and become the popular target of hate and discrimination in the US. These include Irish immigrants, Americans who originate from Germany, Italy and Japan, East European immigrants, Jews, Catholics, etc. These prejudices took time to get over with, but people eventually overcame them.
But what riles me is the extreme right faction of the Republican party (I say extreme right because their tactics are similar to other extreme right parties. I don't hate the Republican party, besides, my father thinks Reagan is the greatest President the US ever had, just these folks.) who are using this issue in order to gain more support for their faction and gain back the power they just lost. I think some of them just used this issue to gain votes, but I have a feeling many of them genuinely believed what they said.
And right-wing commentators like Glenn Beck are not making it any better, with his fear-mongering over any sign of progress that actually made America great in the first place. (In fact, I think if this guy was in FDR's time, he'd say that FDR was bringing communism to USA and planned Pearl Harbor with the Japanese)
fuser wrote: (First post) Now, my opinion is that while it's a good idea and done in good faith, the plan is a bit ill-conceived, and many muslims themselves thought so, realising the danger they will get into if the project proceeds.
But the worst part is the republicans who decided to use this to tap on the distrust of americans towards muslims in general in order to weaken the government for them to gain more support and power for themselves. Now I don't know, but I'd say some of them probably believed in what they said, while others are just interested in gaining votes.
I think that the Muslims are taking a bit of a risk when it comes to their own safety. Since the argument against the mosque seems to be that Muslims are responcible for violence and so they can't be trusted, all they need to do to reverse that is get beaten up by some rednecks. Seeing as New York still has ethnic gettos, I don't think the protest is too suprising.
spyware wrote: I too hope that the "American way of life" will cease to exist. It's ridiculous. hehe, word.
Alright..
WHAT??!!! I thought America was all for that private property,individualism thingy..
If it's the guy's (excuse my words) Bloody property,He can bloody well build anything he wants on it as long as it isn't illegal…
AND AMERICANS ARE TALKING ABOUT FEELINGS??!! (Are you F**king kidding me??)
America is the ONLY developed nation in the world with an active Nazi party.(Even BNP doesn't say "White power") http://www.americannaziparty.com/
And republicans are hypocrites if I ever knew one..I mean..they talk of tax cuts AND budget cuts!!HELLO..it's the sodding WORLD economy..at least THINK before you talk…
And if you seriously think terrorists are serious Muslims..PLEASE!!!
They are young kids with acne,rage and no brains…just kill off the intelligence agencies of Muslim theocracies and you'll be fine…
And just some food for thought:
1.)Terrorists have vast stockpiles of explosives and expertise 2.)America depends on ships for both economy AND DEFENCE. 3.)Radar and sonar cannot detect vessels that are small(ask the drug lords of Mexico) or divers.. 4.)The hull of a ship can bear substantial HITS,but cannot stand a massive explosion followed by a shaped charge…
Can anyone tell me WTF terrorists are blowing up in their own sodding nations instead of learning to dive,setting up a load of explosives on an American vessel and f**king it up??!!
It barely takes a year to become a fully qualified diver..
Seriously..get real..9/11,26/11,7/11,They were intelligence failures on part of secular agencies and success on part of Islamic theocracies…
Just think about it..a war means more fuel consumption,funds to large corporations and more than anything..FUNDS TO ISLAMIC THEOCRACIES FOR "DEFENSE"…
Seriously..I thought Americans were smart..then I grew up and read a newspaper.
**And as for the topic at hand..Getting scared of red-necks and stopping the building is like saying "I'm scared of Islamic terrorists so I'll convert and wear a Burkha". **
Terrorism and intolerance are evils people,no matter who is doing it.
Note:Americans above mean the majority of people protesting..not every American.:)
Not all Islamic theocracies..but a lot of them…especially in the middle East and South-East Asia….
And BTW: 1.)I'm not Islamic or Sikh. 2.)To red-necks..Sikhs are an order FORMED to defend a culture against Muslim invaders 3.)I think Israel's stupid..bickering over a few pieces of land??Just declare it international territory..put up a case in an international court and throw a few billion tons of paperwork at the Hamas..We have been doing it since who knows when..:)
onejerlo wrote: Alright..
WHAT??!!! I thought America was all for that private property,individualism thingy..
If it's the guy's (excuse my words) Bloody property,He can bloody well build anything he wants on it as long as it isn't illegal…
AND AMERICANS ARE TALKING ABOUT FEELINGS??!! (Are you F**king kidding me??)
America is the ONLY developed nation in the world with an active Nazi party.(Even BNP doesn't say "White power") http://www.americannaziparty.com/
And republicans are hypocrites if I ever knew one..I mean..they talk of tax cuts AND budget cuts!!HELLO..it's the sodding WORLD economy..at least THINK before you talk…
And if you seriously think terrorists are serious Muslims..PLEASE!!!
They are young kids with acne,rage and no brains…just kill off the intelligence agencies of Muslim theocracies and you'll be fine…
And just some food for thought:
1.)Terrorists have vast stockpiles of explosives and expertise 2.)America depends on ships for both economy AND DEFENCE. 3.)Radar and sonar cannot detect vessels that are small(ask the drug lords of Mexico) or divers.. 4.)The hull of a ship can bear substantial HITS,but cannot stand a massive explosion followed by a shaped charge…
Can anyone tell me WTF terrorists are blowing up in their own sodding nations instead of learning to dive,setting up a load of explosives on an American vessel and f**king it up??!!
It barely takes a year to become a fully qualified diver..
Seriously..get real..9/11,26/11,7/11,They were intelligence failures on part of secular agencies and success on part of Islamic theocracies…
Just think about it..a war means more fuel consumption,funds to large corporations and more than anything..FUNDS TO ISLAMIC THEOCRACIES FOR "DEFENSE"…
Seriously..I thought Americans were smart..then I grew up and read a newspaper.
**And as for the topic at hand..Getting scared of red-necks and stopping the building is like saying "I'm scared of Islamic terrorists so I'll convert and wear a Burkha". **
Terrorism and intolerance are evils people,no matter who is doing it.
Note:Americans above mean the majority of people protesting..not every American.:)
Not all Islamic theocracies..but a lot of them…especially in the middle East and South-East Asia….
And BTW: 1.)I'm not Islamic or Sikh. 2.)To red-necks..Sikhs are an order FORMED to defend a culture against Muslim invaders 3.)I think Israel's stupid..bickering over a few pieces of land??Just declare it international territory..put up a case in an international court and throw a few billion tons of paperwork at the Hamas..We have been doing it since who knows when..:) An intelligent analysis. Really, if Americans(referring to the people protesting) think that Middle East islamic countries are supporting terrorism, why go to "wars" against terrorism? Because, indirectly, they are funding the terrorists.
Let me begin:
About the topic at hand:
The guys should go ahead with the building.It's their plot,their money. There is nothing illegal about what they are doing and they stand on firm legal ground. And being scared of red necks is no worse than being scared of terrorists.
On Republicans:
They are HYPOCRITES,because:
1.)They rant on about individual rights and how income and property taxes hurt it,but when it comes to this,they stand against it.
2.)They talk of hurting the feelings of the families of the victims,yet the feelings of holocaust survivors were not taken into account when they mixed with the American Nazi party(google it)
3.)They speak of traditionalism and banning immigrants and what not,but forget that it was "immigrants" that have led to most development in USA.Just take out any research journal,you will find at least 1 immigrant in every team.
4.)They have no manners,speak like sodding cowboys and have no respect..a disaster waiting to happen if they are elected in today's world;USA might be great,but let it not forget that arrogance leads to one's demise.
On terrorists:
1.)Terrorists need funds.Countries have loads of funds.Figure out the rest.
2.)Terrorists seem to be following a very..ah..peaceful strategy.As pointed out in my prev. post..attacking western vessels is easier and grabs much more attention.It also makes the use of force against them harder.So,the question is,why are they not doing it?
3.)Americans are living in a dream if they think they can destroy terrorists completely,as someone once pointed out,any little bugger can stand up,shout "jihaaaaaad" and become a terrorist.The trick lies in convincing people that its a bad idea.
4.)And about all these surveillance and patriot acts,I don't know how they do things in the US,but in India,the intelligence agencies don't show off.There are no movies about them(censored) and they present themselves as clerks to most people.The point being that the actual field agents do not exist and since you can't prosecute ghosts,no point in talking about it.Indeed,the intelligence agencies in India are not answerable to the public and that's RARE,over here, even the chiefs of staff(military) are answerable.
On Muslims:
1.)You have to think about the Muslims.You see,the stereotypes that exist are completely idiotic.I know quite a few Muslims whose pronunciation and vocabulary is better than most Americans.
2.)Stop thinking that the Quran advocates violence.Religious documents are way of recording history,albeit a distorted one.And the Bible prescribes violence for that matter.
See:http://jmm.aaa.net.au/articles/1086.htm
3.)Seriously tbaybucs?Did you ever think outside the US?Did you know that Muslims and Christians are classified as the same in India?
Did you know that in India,both are considered tiny religious sects?Your entire histories are considered tiny segments of the same story?Did you know that here,there were Christian terror groups(until recently)?
** On Wars:**
1.)USA should stop gibbering on about democracy,just face it,war and democracy don't go together.
2.)USA should also stop being hypocrites,it should face the fact that it has the wrong allies,supporting failed nations which give funds to terrorists is morally and logically wrong.
I hope this was enough..its just that there are a lot of factors connected here..this is just skimming the surface.
@Fuser: Just read your post…Hindu Separatists??I laughed at that one!! For you info.There have been only 3 incidents of Hindu terror(as in bombs) and all culprits were not only disowned by their families and leaders,but also called devils and demons by heads of Hindu org.
As I remember,one Hindu Guru(religious leader) gave a list of things that should be done to them.
And I quote:"They should tortured and hung in public and the video published.These heartless fools deserve no mercy.Let us make an example out of these men such that none other may even think as these did."
The same feelings were echoed everywhere…If the Imams said something similar instead of "Condemning in strong words",there would be fewer terrorists.
Sorry if that sounds "Biased".:)
@tbaybucs: Another thing..USA is not the only nation stuck with terror,India has suffered too.But the "Great US" seems to refuse to allow strikes against them..indeed,some of you tax money went into supporting those groups. And most of the dudes here are in their 20's?Lucky them..I'm waiting for my 18th birthday.Sadly,age is no measure of experience or maturity.I've held the same views since age 10(Kargil war) and have no intentions of changing them.
ADDED: By the way..I like Obama's new strategy of secret wars and assassinations. Kind of scary..but effective..now if he just stops funding Muslim theocracies..:)
onejerlo wrote: Not exactly.MOSSAD is controlled by fundamentalists with vendettas.not very professional to allow too much emotion in this field.I prefer USA.at least it has goals.to stop terrorist acts.revenge cannot besatisfied with anything other than true forgive and forget. I was referring to the way the work is done, not the way of thinking.
@ynori7:Could you please state the lines which were "exaggerated, unfounded, or nonsensical."?No really..I seriously believe most of the stuff there..if its wrong..I need to know.
@goluhaque:Sorry,I misunderstood.To be frank..I don't know much about the MOSSAD other than that its brutal,ruthless and doesn't actually care about human rights(The press here seems to have tiffs with Israel).Personally,I think that its a miracle that Israel still exists..we have a lot to learn from it.:)
onejerlo wrote: 1.)They rant on about individual rights and how income and property taxes hurt it,but when it comes to this,they stand against it. This sentence doesn't make sense. They rant about how income and property taxes hurt individual rights, and in this case they stand against that? There must be something wrong with your phrasing because it would be hypocritical for them not to stand against it. Also, I've never heard "republicans" rant about how income or property taxes hurt individual rights. I think you mean "hippies".
2.)They talk of hurting the feelings of the families of the victims,yet the feelings of holocaust survivors were not taken into account when they mixed with the American Nazi party(google it) I've never heard of any connection between the Republican party and the American Nazi Party. Link.
3.)They speak of traditionalism and banning immigrants and what not,but forget that it was "immigrants" that have led to most development in USA.Just take out any research journal,you will find at least 1 immigrant in every team. They don't speak of banning immigrants, they talk about deporting illegal aliens, which is the right thing to do. At the most they talk about having an immigrant quota to limit the number, and that's no different from most other nations.
4.)They have no manners,speak like sodding cowboys and have no respect..a disaster waiting to happen if they are elected in today's world;USA might be great,but let it not forget that arrogance leads to one's demise. That's an unfounded, biased generalization if I ever heard one.
With that whole bit on Republicans you're either misinformed, or your forming judgments about a large group based on a small group of outliers.
2.)Terrorists seem to be following a very..ah..peaceful strategy.As pointed out in my prev. post..attacking western vessels is easier and grabs much more attention.It also makes the use of force against them harder.So,the question is,why are they not doing it? I don't understand what the hell you're trying to do with this comment? Are you trying to give terrorists advice?
4.)And about all these surveillance and patriot acts,I don't know how they do things in the US,but in India,the intelligence agencies don't show off.There are no movies about them(censored) and they present themselves as clerks to most people.The point being that the actual field agents do not exist and since you can't prosecute ghosts,no point in talking about it.Indeed,the intelligence agencies in India are not answerable to the public and that's RARE,over here, even the chiefs of staff(military) are answerable. Not sure what this has to do with anything.
1.)You have to think about the Muslims.You see,the stereotypes that exist are completely idiotic.I know quite a few Muslims whose pronunciation and vocabulary is better than most Americans. I dunno what kind of stereotypes you have wherever you are, but I've never heard of that one here.
3.)Seriously tbaybucs?Did you ever think outside the US?Did you know that Muslims and Christians are classified as the same in India?
Did you know that in India,both are considered tiny religious sects?Your entire histories are considered tiny segments of the same story?Did you know that here,there were Christian terror groups(until recently)? I'm not really sure what you consider to be a tiny sect, but 13% of India is Muslim. That's roughtly 130 million people. (http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0107629.html?pageno=13#axzz0yK8D9wkZ). That's a minority, yes, but I don't think that group is as small as you indicate.
1.)USA should stop gibbering on about democracy,just face it,war and democracy don't go together. Nobody said they did. War and civilization don't really go together.
2.)USA should also stop being hypocrites,it should face the fact that it has the wrong allies,supporting failed nations which give funds to terrorists is morally and logically wrong. Which allies are wrong and why?
@Ynori7 Clarifications:
1.)They rant on about individual rights and how income and property taxes hurt it,but when it comes to this,they stand against it.
It is hypocritical,they say that a man's property is his divine right..It's the Muslims property,they may do anything they want to do with it. And they do say that taxes hurt individual rights..It was detailed in one of Paul Krugman's columns..don't remember which one..and I really trust that guy.
2.)They talk of hurting the feelings of the families of the victims,yet the feelings of holocaust survivors were not taken into account when they mixed with the American Nazi party(google it)
This was a screw up..A nazi guy contested for a seat in a Republican area and won..after a bit of research my flaw stood out..it's America..the people are not controlled by their MP..sorry about that
3.)They speak of traditionalism and banning immigrants and what not,but forget that it was "immigrants" that have led to most development in USA.Just take out any research journal,you will find at least 1 immigrant in every team.
When you are a leader,you need to be responsible..By talking of "kicking out" illegal immigrants..these guys are rousing feelings..feelings which may cause mobs..mobs which are stupid…mobs which say that if you are not my color..you are illegal.We have a few of that type in my nation as well..we call them f**ked up as*holes and arrest them on a regular basis.
MOST OTHER NATIONS?So you are saying that just cause everyone does it..its right?
4.)They have no manners,speak like sodding cowboys and have no respect..a disaster waiting to happen if they are elected in today's world;USA might be great,but let it not forget that arrogance leads to one's demise.
I never said I wasn't biased against them..I am biased against most people.. But the "Small group of outliers" is the public face of America if elected and that group includes 2 former presidents.
2.)Terrorists seem to be following a very..ah..peaceful strategy.As pointed out in my prev. post..attacking western vessels is easier and grabs much more attention.It also makes the use of force against them harder.So,the question is,why are they not doing it?
All I am asking is..if they can do it??Why aren't they?I have a theory that terrorists are tolerated and even protected by certain allies(look below) of USA..which are all too happy that the US is dependent upon them and by the way..If the terrorists took that advise..it would be a much better world..Soldiers know how to deal with them..civilians don't.
And as someone once told me..the only difference between a terrorist and a freedom fighter..is that the freedom fighters have already won..and the terrorists haven't.
1.)You have to think about the Muslims.You see,the stereotypes that exist are completely idiotic.I know quite a few Muslims whose pronunciation and vocabulary is better than most Americans.
Ever heard of "Apu Nahasapeemapetilon" from the Simpsons?He might not be a Muslim..but put a cap on his head and that's the average Americans idea of a Muslim.
ynori7: I'm not really sure what you consider to be a tiny sect, but 13% of India is Muslim. That's roughtly 130 million people.
Ok..this is YOUR mistake: 1.)I never said I consider it to be a tiny sect..that is the average Indian(IQ 81) speaking.
2.)Take my own city..Hyderabad..Muslims are a majority here..but they are concentrated in the "Old Hyderabad" region..out of that..the IT hubs..The Green zones..etc.. are all dominated by Hindu Upper Castes.So while population while Muslims might be 13%..their voice is almost never considered..Also..in India..a Muslim is never just a Muslim..He's a Sunni or a Shia.and so on and so forth..So..while a guy in Hyderabad knows that Muslims form a large part of society…most others outside it don't.
Ynori7: Nobody said they did. War and civilization don't really go together.
All right..which nation do you live in??Or which world?? "Bringing" democracy to Iraq,Afghanistan??
Ynori7: Which allies are wrong and why?
Seriously..are you ET or is the media in your nation really that blind??
I didn't wanna take names(it was OBVIOUS)..but..alright..PAKISTAN!!! Pakistan sponsors terrorism..EVERYONE knows that..the first war it fought..it sent terrorists instead of soldiers…seriously..just read it up..you should be aware of this sh*t..just in case you get into a position of power later.
That about covers it?The CIA comment??Yeah..it didn't have much to do with the topic..then again..its Off-topic.:)
onejerlo wrote: When you are a leader,you need to be responsible..By talking of "kicking out" illegal immigrants..these guys are rousing feelings..feelings which may cause mobs..mobs which are stupid…mobs which say that if you are not my color..you are illegal.We have a few of that type in my nation as well..we call them f**ked up as*holes and arrest them on a regular basis. Feelings that don't make sense. We have a serious illegal immigration problem here, and to avoid detection these immigrants accept jobs for far less than minimum wage, which hurts our economy and takes jobs from legal citizens. If we don't deport them, then why bother to classify them as illegal?
MOST OTHER NATIONS?So you are saying that just cause everyone does it..its right? No, but it does make it standard, so why single out one country in your complaints?
Ever heard of "Apu Nahasapeemapetilon" from the Simpsons?He might not be a Muslim..but put a cap on his head and that's the average Americans idea of a Muslim. Okay, two points here. Firstly, I do know quite a few people from India and the Middle East and many do have an accent similar to that. But I don't have any trouble understanding their speech.
Second point. You're making a complaint about how Americans are judging the whole group based on just a few people. Who's the hypocrite:
4.)They have no manners,speak like sodding cowboys and have no respect..a disaster waiting to happen if they are elected in today's world;USA might be great,but let it not forget that arrogance leads to one's demise.
I never said I wasn't biased against them..I am biased against most people.. But the "Small group of outliers" is the public face of America if elected and that group includes 2 former presidents.
Ynori7: Nobody said they did. War and civilization don't really go together.
All right..which nation do you live in??Or which world?? "Bringing" democracy to Iraq,Afghanistan??
We didn't get to vote on that. In fact, we just elected the presidential candidate who said he would end the war. Don't assume everyone here likes war; I wouldn't assume everyone in the Middle East supports terrorism.
I didn't wanna take names(it was OBVIOUS)..but..alright..PAKISTAN!!! Pakistan sponsors terrorism..EVERYONE knows that..the first war it fought..it sent terrorists instead of soldiers…seriously..just read it up..you should be aware of this sh*t..just in case you get into a position of power later. The purpose of that alliance is so that we can move troops and supplies through Pakistani territory. It may not be a happy alliance, but there are reason for having it.
Ynori7: Feelings that don't make sense. We have a serious illegal immigration problem here, and to avoid detection these immigrants accept jobs for far less than minimum wage, which hurts our economy and takes jobs from legal citizens. If we don't deport them, then why bother to classify them as illegal?
Scared of competition?And this is one big misconception..Having a lot of people with some money DOES NOT HURT THE ECONOMY.Indeed,they are more likely to spend than 1 dude with a lot of money.So,not only does the industry get more(and better) labor,but since spending increases,the economy is boosted.
And for your kind info..illegal immigrants are not the ones sitting on their asses demanding benefit money.
Ynori7: No, but it does make it standard, so why single out one country in your complaints?
Hmm..in the 18th century..it was standard to keep slaves..YOU APPROVE?
And I am not singling out..this discussion is about the US.
Ynori7: Okay, two points here. Firstly, I do know quite a few people from India and the Middle East and many do have an accent similar to that. But I don't have any trouble understanding their speech.
Second point. You're making a complaint about how Americans are judging the whole group based on just a few people. Who's the hypocrite:
1.)How many people do you know?And of what background?Of all the Indians I know about 3 people have an accent..and for your Info…most Indians speak as though they are reading.They speak Perfectly..indeed Indians are some of the last few people,who have not developed an accent yet. (I am speaking of Indians educated PROPERLY..not the factory-manufactured,learn by rote that usually go the US)
2.)I live 14,000 Fu*ing KM from the people I am judging..I do not judge my neighbors..and the Indian media most certainly does not portray Americans as fools(Other than,of course..George Bush)
Ynori7:
We didn't get to vote on that. In fact, we just elected the presidential candidate who said he would end the war. Don't assume everyone here likes war; I wouldn't assume everyone in the Middle East supports terrorism.
YOU DO NOT GET TO VOTE ON FU*KING WARS!!But didn't you learn your lessons about what happens when strong headed conservatives come to power?Remember Panama?Remember Vietnam?Remember Korea?
You learn history so that you may not do the same mistakes you know.
Oh..and by the way..the first Gulf War..the situation could have been solved by lightning diplomacy,alliances and gestures..but Bush decides to drag the nation into a war..
Yorni7:
The purpose of that alliance is so that we can move troops and supplies through Pakistani territory. It may not be a happy alliance, but there are reason for having it.
1.)Pakistan and USA were aligned much before all this..USA sent a NUCLEAR fleet to help Pakistan during the 1971 indo-pak war.Good thing we had forced them into surrender before any action could be taken.Otherwise..there would be no Bangladesh(the US..the great..LEADER of the free world,supported a military dictator whose forces were committing genocide.
2.)There are other ways into Afghanistan you know..and the traditional route to Afghanistan is through India..all you had to do was force Pakistan to allow passage through POK(Pakistan occupied Kashmir).
onejerlo wrote: Scared of competition? Clearly you don't understand the issue. There is no competition. You have one worker willing to work for $5 an hour (a very low wage), and another willing to work for $5 a day (an incredibly low wage). That leads to having a bunch of illegal aliens with tiny amounts of money, and as many jobless citizens with tiny amounts of money.
And this is one big misconception..Having a lot of people with some money DOES NOT HURT THE ECONOMY.Indeed,they are more likely to spend than 1 dude with a lot of money.So,not only does the industry get more(and better) labor,but since spending increases,the economy is boosted. Wrong. Think of it like this. If you divide $20 amongst two people and there's a bunch of stuff that we can buy for $5 each, then we can each get two. Now if you take that $20 and divide it amongst 30 people now none of us can buy any.
YOU DO NOT GET TO VOTE ON FU*KING WARS!!But didn't you learn your lessons about what happens when strong headed conservatives come to power?Remember Panama?Remember Vietnam?Remember Korea? The Vietnam war began during a conservative's presidency, but it then continued through two liberal presidents and it ended during a conservative's term. The Korean war began during the term of a liberal president and ended when a conservative came into office. Get your facts straight.
Ynori7: Clearly you don't understand the issue. There is no competition. You have one worker willing to work for $5 an hour (a very low wage), and another willing to work for $5 a day (an incredibly low wage). That leads to having a bunch of illegal aliens with tiny amounts of money, and as many jobless citizens with tiny amounts of money.
1.)I KNOW EXACTLY WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUT. There are 200,000 engineers unemployed in India…Every one of them willing to work at EXTREMELY low salaries.There is a reason why some people are chosen over others..it's known as QUALITY OF WORK and skills.
Are you saying that an adult American,having been able to study in one of the world's BEST education system for most of his life..can merely offer the same quality of work as a guy who has come from an impoverished nation?
If I were a manager and that fact were true..I would import them..no matter what the rules..it always better to take a small external blow(from the GOV) than to suffer from a cancer(Skill-less American workers).And that knowledge is not from "communist/socialist" propaganda as I am sure you are thinking but from a Harvard publication.
Ynori7: Wrong. Think of it like this. If you divide $20 amongst two people and there's a bunch of stuff that we can buy for $5 each, then we can each get two. Now if you take that $20 and divide it amongst 30 people now none of us can buy any.
hmm..lets look at it like this..People,even if they are immigrants,need food,clothes and shelter..if not..they will have top go back/die…so..lets see:
say you get $20 for food for a week for 2 dudes..but food from company A only costs $5 per week per dude.Then,The guys are likely to save their $10.GREAT,YAY!! but the problem is..unless you put it in a bank..that's $10 out of financial circulation..That's $10 that a company employing a thousand people needs to stay afloat..which it isn't getting.
Now say you spread the same $20 among 10-20(30?I DO NOT THINK SO) immigrant dudes.So..since the dude absolutely NEEDS to eat,He would use it..he would use it on lesser quality goods say from company B..but that's $10 re-injected into the system.
And while the company selling things for $5 does not directly benefit from it,It means that at company B,a guy's job is saved..and that guy buys some other goods from Company A..and both the company and the people benefit and global hunger and poverty is reduced.
And then since both the companies are now secure..they will employ the 2 dudes at $20 if they feel that the 2 dudes will contribute to their progress.
The reason being..Money today is like current..if stalled..it's just electrons in metal..but once it moves..its sheer power.
The cause being..in the older days..all money was tied to gold..it had a more or less constant value,I grant you..but the limited supply of gold would mean that if 1 fellow needs to get rich..another NEEDS to get poor.
But today..it's all in the movement..The same electrons(coins) move in a loop..but along the way..they help power a motor..the motor of world economy.So,the more the money gets used..the more its strength increases..sort of like knowledge(grows upon sharing)
read the above lines twice or thrice..grasp the meaning..forget that it's a kid telling you this..just try to understand.
Ynori7: The Vietnam war began during a conservative's presidency, but it then continued through two liberal presidents and it ended during a conservative's term. The Korean war began during the term of a liberal president and ended when a conservative came into office. Get your facts straight.
1.)I said CONSERVATIVE STRONG HEAD,not CONSERVATIVE PARTY strong head. these are politicians,they have their own opinions which do not necessarily conform to those of their party,and you are lucky,you get to elect your supreme leader..make use of that luck.
2.)Once you start a war..A lot is at stake.You cannot just withdraw.You have to go out if not at a superior then at least at an equal position as your enemy.Otherwise,you not merely loose credibility,but there is a high chance that the region might cut all ties with you.Which is why I approve of Obama's Partial withdrawal..which..while allowing the special forces to safeguard its interests in Iraq..puts to rest the notion that Iraq is still under invasion.
Note:
1.)Call me naive,but I think countries are just another limitation,a classification..just like Race,religion,color or creed…we are humans..we have a common goal..to peacefully co-exist with each other and with ourselves.
Human lives are short..but they are also invaluable.
1.5)And the Harvard Pub. didn't use those exact word..it merely said that dedicated and skilled workers are better than unskilled "yes men"…so I extended it..;)
2.)Today,we are at an unique juncture.Where science has enabled us to pursue all inclusive growth.Let us not be,at this fork in the road,torn apart by partisan and biased politics,and instead resolve,not merely to eliminate poverty,but to make sure that each man is rich.For no country is truly developed,no man truly wealthy,until hunger and war,those twin minions of evil,are fully and truly conquered.
3.)(look at 2)I am really good at this S*it..if only I was as good at corruption..then I'd skyrocket in politics!!:)
COM wrote: Nice to see you joining the conversation, USA-boy :D Was hoping for Futility to get all defensive as she tends to, it's so adorable. Hey, I'm not defensive you little dick-headed, cum-guzzling, racist fuck. You Swastika-loving, freedom-hating pussy… have-er. Fuck you up the ass with a rusty nine-volt battery attached to a train made of the hair off your dead relatives, you ass-licking, shit-smearing cunt! Defensive, me! How can you even say something like that you… you… potty ass mouth, you!? FUCK! I AM NOT DEFENSIVE, AND I'M NOT ADORABLE! I DEMAND RESPECT!
Also: I disagree with a lot of what was said above and agree with a bunch of the other stuff, maybe. CPs to those that earned them and not to those that didn't. Change is good, fight the power, we can do it if we just word together, be prepared. All that good shit. (Except for you, COM. Dick. (Also, do you have a skype, because I've shifted away from MSN since I got my new laptop and moved in to college and don't really want to load it in again. <3))
Futility wrote: Hey, I'm not defensive you little dick-headed, cum-guzzling, racist fuck. You Swastika-loving, freedom-hating pussy… have-er. Fuck you up the ass with a rusty nine-volt battery attached to a train made of the hair off your dead relatives, you ass-licking, shit-smearing cunt! Defensive, me! How can you even say something like that you… you… potty ass mouth, you!? FUCK! I AM NOT DEFENSIVE, AND I'M NOT ADORABLE! I DEMAND RESPECT!
Also: I disagree with a lot of what was said above and agree with a bunch of the other stuff, maybe. CPs to those that earned them and not to those that didn't. Change is good, fight the power, we can do it if we just word together, be prepared. All that good shit. (Except for you, COM. Dick. (Also, do you have a skype, because I've shifted away from MSN since I got my new laptop and moved in to college and don't really want to load it in again. <3)) Hah, joke's on you, my relatives are all bald! We take this racist skinhead thing very seriously, you know. So excuuuuUUUUUUuuuuse me for being a part of the master race; ya jealous bitch. And sorry, but I don't have skype :/ <3
Oh and reminds me, I'd appreciate it if someone would take a look at the child p- I mean, community points voting system. I know that non-EM members can only vote in certain parts of the forum, but I can't even vote there. All I can do is click the buttons, then (and excuse me for the very technical term) fuck all happens. So if someone could get that fixed, I'd very much appreciate it. Now if you excuse me, I've got waffles to eat, kittens to pet, puppies to kick and swastikas to sew onto my clothes.
ynori7 wrote: [quote]COM wrote: I know that non-EM members can only vote in certain parts of the forum, but I can't even vote there. That's because this is the off-topic forum. I believe non-EM members can only vote in the "Computer General" forums. [/quote] Yes, I know that, smartass. In this section they aren't even visible, I'm talking about the ones that are and therefor should work. Furthermore, I wouldn't vote in this section even if I could, I've made it clear before that I regard the off topic part as a place where community points shouldn't be handed out for posts.
ynori7 wrote: Works perfectly fine. I just down-voted you for calling me a smartass. I verified that it subtracted the point. You're welcome. Well yes, of course it works perfectly fine for you. It worked perfectly fine for me every time I was an EM as well. Also: thanks, that one point above an even 0 bugged the fuck out of me :)