A Little Rant.

Ok, I have been around here for quite some time and learned many things.

So, I have noticed that around here at HBH, there are a couple things that annoy me a lot in many cases.

1. The constant hostility toward each other. This seems to be taking over the forums. People attacking or provoking others for various reasons. Some of them have valid reasons, some are for no reason.

I can understand someone blowing up on another person for a personal insult. I do the same, I will not lie. However, the random attack that ends up in a flamewar is just pitiful.

Person 1: So, I just learned how to use Netcat, but I would like to learn more about the way it works.

Person 2: @ Person 1, Are you an idiot? Learn how to program, maybe you can learn something. Stop using other people's tools. Damn Skript Kiddies.

Person 3: @ Person 2, Dude, wtf. He was asking a question and you blow up on him. What kind of Dbag are you? If you know so much about programming, why don't you at least explain Netcat to him?

Person 2: @ Person 3: I know enough about Netcat that anyone here would cry. I don't need to explain anything, it is self explanatory.

Person 4: Dude, both of you DAsses Shut the F Up. Neither of you know anything.

Person 1: Um.. I guess that no one wants to answer me?

A simple question seems to always turn into a war about the cocks. Why do we always have to flop them out on the table, why can't we just answer what is asked? I thought "Real" hackers want to learn and help others to learn. What good is this site if no one is willing to help teach others that truly want to learn, rather than shoot them down, possibly turning them away from the site for good?

2. "Google it"

This seems to be shot at anyone and everyone that asks a question. For instance, someone wants personal references of websites that might help them. "Why don't you google it yourself?" What if say, Mr_Cheese asked this same question? Would you tell him to google it? I can understand the stupid question, "How can I program Hello, World! in C++?" This would be something worth telling another person to "google it." "What Linux Distrobution is best?" Yea, I would give opinions as to the pros and cons of each distro that I used. However, if someone asked me to give them links to where they can download each one, I would probably tell them to google it.

/End Rant.

@OP: Dude, wtf? Are you an idiot? stfu and google how forums work!

I totally agree with you, a flame war is what it is, but sometime I just see some guy come ask the wrong question or ask at the wrong time and just get laid into for no reason.

I do my best not to reply with google it. Soemtime though the first result will explain it far better than I could. For example general advice about how so and so works e.g. use cat to output a file. or goole it as in how do use a for loop.

I think most of the hiostility ( as I have said before) is from life in general, people need to learn not to take that fustration out on people online.

wolfmankurd wrote: I totally agree with you, a flame war is what it is, but sometime I just see some guy come ask the wrong question or ask at the wrong time and just get laid into for no reason.

I do my best not to reply with google it. Soemtime though the first result will explain it far better than I could. For example general advice about how so and so works e.g. use cat to output a file. or goole it as in how do use a for loop.

I think most of the hiostility ( as I have said before) is from life in general, people need to learn not to take that fustration out on people online.

Thank you! I am glad I am not alone with this rant.

bl4ckc4t wrote: What if say, Mr_Cheese asked this same question? Would you tell him to google it? I certainly would. But I know what you're mean about the hostility. This is the reason I wrote the special edition of the Newsletter.

However, there is sometimes a good reason for people constantly saying to do research on your own. I've answered questions like "which OS is best?" and "which is the best programming language?" so many times I that I'm tired of repeating myself. That's why we've got a search function here.

And really, 90% of the time it's easier to type your question into Google first than to try asking other people. I always do; only takes 10 seconds. It's a habit that anybody who is interested in pursuing the field of computers should get into.

Ahh but the knowledge has to come from somewhere. Answers found through google were answered without a google it approach. Thats why the information is there today for you to be able to "google it".

(I actually google before asking questions aswell, a good habit, but Im also playing a bit of devils advocate)

ynori7 wrote: [quote]bl4ckc4t wrote: What if say, Mr_Cheese asked this same question? Would you tell him to google it? I certainly would. But I know what you're mean about the hostility. This is the reason I wrote the special edition of the Newsletter.

However, there is sometimes a good reason for people constantly saying to do research on your own. I've answered questions like "which OS is best?" and "which is the best programming language?" so many times I that I'm tired of repeating myself. That's why we've got a search function here.

And really, 90% of the time it's easier to type your question into Google first than to try asking other people. I always do; only takes 10 seconds. It's a habit that anybody who is interested in pursuing the field of computers should get into.[/quote]

I can certainly understand the same questions being asked 100 times being asked to google it. The reason for my rant is questions that aren't asked all that much, or questions that google really can't answer. Questions of, say "Which websites are best for photoshop tutorials" or "is there a website that does a side by side comparison of firewalls?" (This question might be borderline "google it," depending on the phrasing of the question.

i agree that the forums and the articles receive a lot of heat and i have commented on this very subject . I did read the newsletter that was mentioned in this thread maybe i didn't get the point of the newsletter or maybe i misread it but, a lot of the tension seemed to be part of a social experiment ? i must admit there are a lot of Q's i have that i will not ask, for fear of getting flamed, im new to hbh and very new to programing/hacking, i joined here to learn but i found myself going to other sites in a lot of cases, to get help with the challenges. Mostly because i dont want to ask questions in public on here. ( curious how many times ill get attacked for this :p )

tbaybucs wrote: i must admit there are a lot of Q's i have that i will not ask

Okay. Lets do this. What questions do you have lined-up/are you afraid to pose on HBH? Just list them all, please.

The reason people are told to "google it" is because they have shown no proof that they have done any work on their own. Why is it the rest of the communities job to do the footwork for someone? As far as cheese, I think he is smart for not posting but once in a great moon. Less to critique him on. If he ask a question and only says "and yes I googled it" and i type the exact same thing into google, but I get 12+ results… Yes, I am going to say something for 2 reasons, 1) They Lied (or they don't deserve to use computers because they can't generalize) and/or 2) They haven't done any work on their own.

I do agree that the forums are hostile, but it has been this way as long as I have been here (almost 3 years). Its got its good and bad sides. It weeds out the weaklings, but it also makes some people not want to post.

look, it's really simple. it's like being in a proper social environment. Other than computers, my other interest is music, and I usually can be seen attending gigs with my friends.

If you've ever been deeply involved with music, you'd know there are several types:

a) fan, probably follows a band or music scene b) follower, knows everything about the scene, and probably even friends with some bands, makes fanzines, sells albums, merch, etc. c) listener, just someone who listens to some bands, even though they might be interested in another band or music genre d) poser, someone who thinks he knows a lot about the band/genre/scene, but generally comes across as the most annoying person, due to their cocky behavior and sheer ignorance. e) new kid, someone who is just getting involved in this, interested, but usually a bit nervous to talk to those around there.

See what I'm implying here? Now try to put it into HBH's context:

a) normal HBH user, does some challenges, posts at the forums, reads articles, checks out code, etc. b) active user; other than the activities mentioned above, he/she might also write articles, post source code, generally being a constructive member. c) casual user, usually checks out the site occasionally to find material he might need to help him around. d) n00b, the guy that everyone loves to hate. flames everyone for no reason, asks stupid questions all the time, and makes stupid comments and other stupid activities. e)newbie, the new kid around. generally well-behaved, but nonetheless clueless on what to do.

you're the last one, but what you should do is to hold yourself from being the one above you.

You can try reading a book, let's say you're interested in Unix security. There are books and sites dedicated to disseminating information on your interest, and if there are some topics that weren't covered / you're unclear, that's when you can post.

Or if you run into a technical problem, provide as many details as possible. if it's programming, try explaining what the problem is along with your source code, if it's your computers problem, determine whether it's a hardware/software issue, then explain it with detail.

if it's hacking, try explaining what you're unclear of or what you were trying to do, and explain to them your results.

just remember not to generalize your posts, or posting in all caps or using leet-speak in horrible proportions. these are the things that will piss everyone off in this forums.

Sorry I put n00b above newbie though.

fuser wrote:

e)newbie, the new kid around. generally well-behaved, but nonetheless clueless on what to do.

you're the last one, but what you should do is to hold yourself from being the one above you.

I wouldnt classify him in this area, he has 500+ posts and has been at least registered for 3 1/2 years

Also has 8 articles and completed several challenges. active user according to your definition is more apt.

actually, I was kinda posting it as "in general" as there are probably newbies who are also reading this.

and it was actually aimed at tbay not bl4ckc4t.

Ahh sorry. Generally however, unless specified, heavily implied, or quoted, I assume responses are directed at the OP.

i would say im an "a" working on "b" and i assume you meant -try not to be the one below you ? but thanx for the info

stdio wrote: [quote]fuser wrote:

e)newbie, the new kid around. generally well-behaved, but nonetheless clueless on what to do.

you're the last one, but what you should do is to hold yourself from being the one above you.

I wouldnt classify him in this area, he has 500+ posts and has been at least registered for 3 1/2 years

Also has 8 articles and completed several challenges. active user according to your definition is more apt.[/quote]

Thank you for the aid. However, I could tell that he was posting about someone other than me/people in general. It would not make sense if he was talking about me directly, due to the points you put in place.

In general, I am glad to see that this thread has remained mostly civil and without sarcasm. Thank you to all that have posted so far.

1. The hostility is an issue, has been discussed many times before (and in the Special Newsletter), and will continue to be an issue. That hostility, in excess, is actually against the rules here… but, that particular rule is not enforced adequately. Whether it's due to the fact that the rule is subjective depending upon the admin, or that it's just a rule that is unpleasant to enforce… It's a good focus for improvement.

2. "Google it" is a much older issue. It doesn't really happen that much anymore. For the few that still do it, they are generally ignored, anyways.

Excellent point. I always thought the response of "google it" to specific, opinionated questions was inappropriate, I now see that I'm not alone.

Also, after thinking about this while coming in close encounters with net rage I think it's just to do with the medium too.

When someone posts something there is no way for the reader to know in what context it was meant. Also since it's much slower than speaking the text usually comes across overworked and maybe dissmissive.

Most people read over what they type if only to check for typos, invariably they end up re-wording things.

I haven't edited this post, but reading over it this is nothing like how I talk. I used "invariably", god knows why. Maybe writing is just more formal.

MoshBat wrote: Typing slower than speaking? In my case, not by much, but I'm not a girl, and so can't fit twenty syllables into one second.

I write somewhat differently than I speak as well. I like my writing to look pretty. For example, I never use double words in writing such as "If I had had". It's fine in speech, but in writing I always try to find a different way to say it, and that slows you down a bit. Also, I like my punctuation to be correct as well, so if I'm writing something complex and I can't figure out how to make the punctuation work right I'll think of a different way to say it. And in writing I try to avoid using the same words/phrasing more than once or twice in a row (like how this sentence does not start with "also" like the previous one did).

I reread all of my posts once or twice before hitting "Post Reply" as well to make sure they're good; this is not the case in speech.