time to call one a hx40r ?
COM's absolutely right. There's a reason to profile yourself as a hacker. It sends a message to people.
The word "hacker" isn't just some meaningless, want-to-be, cool-to-talk-about thing. It stands for something.
Whether you are open-source-loving, security-preaching, government-doubting, all-configuring, curiosity-satisfying, computer-cracking, crypto-analysing…
You're also a hacker.
like clone said, there's a skill set, a mind set, and a community. People can give advice/opinions because you do things that they did/would have done/saw other people do, but you're still the best person to judge.
This book is a compilation of popular blogs (at the time). It gives different views, and you aren't going to agree with all of it. However, I bet anyone who reads that section will find a few good things. http://books.google.com/books?id=vPvhzDqZlaAC&printsec=frontcover&dq=technical+blogs+joel&lr=#PPA95,M1
lol why should you want to call your self hacker? you will amaze your friends when you tell them that your hacker or what? You probably will never become hacker because of your lack of wisdom… just be cool and let people tell you what are you!!!!!!! Like i see you want to do something to become hacker right? well if you down website or if you break in someones computer will you become hacker ? what you think ? The answer is:…. NO! First Learn what the word "hacker" mean…. Most of hackers are born hackers few become through training and learning. :evil::evil::evil::evil::evil::evil::evil::evil::evil:
Greetz By me The Noob
iamjustanoob wrote: lol why should you want to call your self hacker? you will amaze your friends when you tell them that your hacker or what? You probably will never become hacker because of your lack of wisdom… just be cool and let people tell you what are you!!!!!!! Like i see you want to do something to become hacker right? well if you down website or if you break in someones computer will you become hacker ? what you think ? The answer is:…. NO! First Learn what the word "hacker" mean…. :evil::evil::evil::evil::evil::evil::evil::evil::evil:
Greetz By me The Noob
lol why should you want to call your self noob?
Kind of surprised nobody linked this…
This is written by Eric Raymond. Super smart guy who demystifies the word hacker to a way of life.
whitecell wrote: Kind of surprised nobody linked this…
This is written by Eric Raymond. Super smart guy who demystifies the word hacker to a way of life.
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/hacker-howto.html
Ehm next time read the thread properly, not only link, but even something quoted from it has already been posted….
clone4 wrote: [quote]whitecell wrote: Kind of surprised nobody linked this…
This is written by Eric Raymond. Super smart guy who demystifies the word hacker to a way of life.
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/hacker-howto.html
Ehm next time read the thread properly, not only link, but even something quoted from it has already been posted….[/quote]
I am no longer surprised. It was hard for me to read through those, don't ask it would take another thread, I try to carefully read usually.
iamjustanoob wrote: Like i see you want to do something to become hacker right? well if you down website or if you break in someones computer will you become hacker ? what you think ? The answer is:…. NO! First Learn what the word "hacker" mean….
harry_potter28 wrote: i want to know when i can call myself a hacker ?
what milestone or what i should do call myself a hacker
Make the obvious connection, win a prize. Ability to read required.
clone4 wrote: [quote]harry_potter28 wrote: @ynori7: didnt get u
He meant that using leet speak, such as hx40r, is first indication that you are a douchbag…
You can call yourself whatever you want, superman, mr. Hanky the christmas pooh, or even Ub3r l33t h4x00r1ng m4ch1n4t0r, nobody really cares. I won't repeat what you can read in better words over here, just include the snippet: http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/hacker-howto.html
Q:
How do I tell if I am already a hacker?
A:
Ask yourself the following three questions:
*
Do you speak code, fluently?
*
Do you identify with the goals and values of the hacker community?
*
Has a well-established member of the hacker community ever called you a hacker?
If you can answer yes to all three of these questions, you are already a hacker. No two alone are sufficient.
The first test is about skills. You probably pass it if you have the minimum technical skills described earlier in this document. You blow right through it if you have had a substantial amount of code accepted by an open-source development project.
The second test is about attitude. If the five principles of the hacker mindset seemed obvious to you, more like a description of the way you already live than anything novel, you are already halfway to passing it. That's the inward half; the other, outward half is the degree to which you identify with the hacker community's long-term projects.
Here is an incomplete but indicative list of some of those projects: Does it matter to you that Linux improve and spread? Are you passionate about software freedom? Hostile to monopolies? Do you act on the belief that computers can be instruments of empowerment that make the world a richer and more humane place?
But a note of caution is in order here. The hacker community has some specific, primarily defensive political interests — two of them are defending free-speech rights and fending off "intellectual-property" power grabs that would make open source illegal. Some of those long-term projects are civil-liberties organizations like the Electronic Frontier Foundation, and the outward attitude properly includes support of them. But beyond that, most hackers view attempts to systematize the hacker attitude into an explicit political program with suspicion; we've learned, the hard way, that these attempts are divisive and distracting. If someone tries to recruit you to march on your capitol in the name of the hacker attitude, they've missed the point. The right response is probably “Shut up and show them the code.”
The third test has a tricky element of recursiveness about it. I observed in the section called “What Is a Hacker?” that being a hacker is partly a matter of belonging to a particular subculture or social network with a shared history, an inside and an outside. In the far past, hackers were a much less cohesive and self-aware group than they are today. But the importance of the social-network aspect has increased over the last thirty years as the Internet has made connections with the core of the hacker subculture easier to develop and maintain. One easy behavioral index of the change is that, in this century, we have our own T-shirts.
Sociologists, who study networks like those of the hacker culture under the general rubric of "invisible colleges", have noted that one characteristic of such networks is that they have gatekeepers — core members with the social authority to endorse new members into the network. Because the "invisible college" that is hacker culture is a loose and informal one, the role of gatekeeper is informal too. But one thing that all hackers understand in their bones is that not every hacker is a gatekeeper. Gatekeepers have to have a certain degree of seniority and accomplishment before they can bestow the title. How much is hard to quantify, but every hacker knows it when they see it.
[/quote]
Woah. now i can lead my life clearly. I liked that.
seriously…
If your part of the community and your not just a leach, then your a hacker =) the term hacker is a very big compliment, but the term is more about the culture, its less about being god and more about being one of us, having intelligent conversations with us, getting that lustful curious look in your eyes when you see a win 98 computer sitting in the back of a state or corporate building being used for services.
Although being god is very nice. ^_^
i dont consider myself a hacker i do love finding windows 98 computers and i code, can compile exploits have hacked alot of servers etc but hacking in general isnt about rooting or exploiting its about a lifestyle
i always try to push the limit never give up
and have a unique curiosity for making things do what they are not supposed to do
and love snmp running on a windows 2000 server coupled with ldap
and i eat domain controllers for breakfast
but i hope some day to be called a hacker but till then im going to do what i do and try not to annoy the fuck out of you guys and code some useful shit for backtracks next release:ninja:
d0m14n wrote: i dont consider myself a hacker i do love finding windows 98 computers and i code, can compile exploits have hacked alot of servers etc but hacking in general isnt about rooting or exploiting its about a lifestyle
i always try to push the limit never give up
and have a unique curiosity for making things do what they are not supposed to do
and love snmp running on a windows 2000 server coupled with ldap
and i eat domain controllers for breakfast
shame nobody asked :D
but i hope some day to be called a hacker but till then im going to do what i do and try not to annoy the fuck out of you guys and code some useful shit for backtracks next release:ninja:
Good luck with that ;)
And late response to COM: To follow the doctor analogy,get your point but you also don't become doctor to be called one, but rather to help people… The way I see it is that the main difference is in attitudes.
clone4 wrote: And late response to COM: To follow the doctor analogy,get your point but you also don't become doctor to be called one, but rather to help people… The way I see it is that the main difference is in attitudes. Attitude's a fine thing, but doesn't change facts on whether you are or not. One can become something for being able to call oneself it with a good attitude if the title sought contains its meaning, it isn't necessarily an empty label hunt. All that will happen if you do it for going around shouting that you're a hacker is that other people will get annoyed with you and dislike you, you can still be one though. However, if you're just seeking an empty label you will most likely never become one since you're not in agreement with the attitudes and the work that needs to be put in to obtain the knowledge, thus you aren't a hacker since you will fail to meet the needed criteria. Empty labels just aren't worth that, and even if you're looking for only that, you can change upon meeting the reality of it.
Point is that you don't have to stop caring about calling yourself a hacker to become one, you can go ahead and care all you want, there are different ways for that to happen. Hoped all this would be understood by that one small post, but meh, fuck it.
Well, I have been following this thread for a few days now and have seen all sides. What about the people before us who did all the work to find out that you could do XSS or DNS poisoning or SQL injection. What about the people who wrote crack.exe or nmap or netcat. What about the people who have already made a difference in the world through hacking. What about the people who are the foundation of our community. Torvalds, among others, gave us the Linux kernel based on Unix. What about the people who have provided us with all the reading we could ever want to do about every vulnerability imaginable. They are the real hackers. When you have the balls to keep trying different things for months without knowing what you are doing but have an understanding that it may be possible to do it.
Those are hackers!!!
The rest of us are just readers in the MATRIX
websniper wrote: Well, I have been following this thread for a few days now and have seen all sides. What about the people before us who did all the work to find out that you could do XSS or DNS poisoning or SQL injection. What about the people who wrote crack.exe or nmap or netcat. What about the people who have already made a difference in the world through hacking. What about the people who are the foundation of our community. Torvalds, among others, gave us the Linux kernel based on Unix. What about the people who have provided us with all the reading we could ever want to do about every vulnerability imaginable. What about them? websniper wrote: They are the real hackers. When you have the balls to keep trying different things for months without knowing what you are doing but have an understanding that it may be possible to do it. I'm pretty sure that they tend to know exactly what the fuck they are doing. They are interested, share the views and passion of others in the community and possess a lot of knowledge, yes. Doesn't mean that others automatically aren't hackers, if they wouldn't have done what they did, someone else would've probably done so. A scientist who's researching and doing what he can isn't unqualified to be called a scientist just because he hasn't gotten a nobel prize.
websniper wrote: I see no need for the F bomb, but as COM stated, they shared their opinions. Why does mine upset COM? Is there a Psychiatrist in the room? What gave you the impression that I'm upset? I just shared my opinion about websniper's opinion, why did he jump to conclusions about my mental state without any knowledge of it effectively making it pointless, irrelevant and untrue? Also, I reckon you've misinterpreted my use of the word share.
Well considering I had a nervous twitch let loose in the middle of class when some student declared himself hackproof with Vista and windows firewall…
Almost every time I hear some type of ignorance regarding security I have to resist the urge to give a lecture.
Anymore I'm tempted to carry around CDs with some basic security and say something stupid like "Practice safe browsing!"
I don't really care if anyone calls me a hacker or if anyone believes me to be a hacker, though somehow I ended up being the schools go-to to learn anything about tech.
If anything I don't like being called a hacker. I pretty well hate that term being used on me because it goes back to a serious negative connotation that ends up getting me blacklisted and watched everywhere like I'm some type of automatic criminal. Way to go stereotypes!
When you become a real hacker, you will know and you won't want to be bothered with any label that one may wish to put on you. A real hacker has no identity, he is whatever he wants you to believe he is. Hacking goes much further than computer exploits; any moron can learn how to do SQL injection, XSS, etc and just try every exploit on a target, that is not a hacker. A hacker has the ability to look at something, determine in his mind what is behind the working of that 'thing', and try to think of how that thing could be vulnerable to exploitation. This can apply to such an infinite amount of things, it can truly be used in every day life.
When you reach the level where you can take a look at things, and think for yourself about how it works and possible ways to exploit it and be able to implement the exploitations in a manner in which you can obtain what you want, you won't want anyone to even think you're a hacker. After all, it's much more difficult to manipulate when they know what you're capable of doing. Sure, online everyone is attacking each other for their hacker status, but those that do such things don't understand the full concept of what hacking really is.
I'd hate to do it, but here's a movie analogy:
The movie swordfish; who was the real hacker in that movie? Was it the world's most dangerous super hacker, the man that sat at the computer and brute forced his way into the system? Was he the real hacker in that movie? Who was used(exploited), and who got what they wanted?