'The Rainbow Hat'

I created this thread in relation to the article by mozzer which seems to have stired a debate on what true idenity of the 'hats' and of his new 'Rainbow Hat'. The article comments rocked and need a forum thread, this may already be done, sorry if so.

http://www.hellboundhackers.org/readarticle.php?article_id=429 ^^^^^^ mozzers article ^^^^^^^

Good idea. I feel that the people who were unjustly arguing with me may find this a fairer playing field.

Firstly can I ask to split this debate up over a week. Each two days we will eventually come to an agreement on one thing,

I.E. Days 1 & 2

Debate on White Hats

Aims

Establish the definition of white hats Highlight the problems and advantages etc

I think hat in general is stupid you do what you think is right witch is based on YOUR moral. everyone is different and we have different meanings on whats a "black hat gray hat or white hat) so there is relay no way to say whats right and wrong….

"Sometimes you got to shot the good guy's to get to the bad guy's."

i like the idea tho of the "rainbow hat"

http://fixedbeforehacked.awardspace.com/rainbowhat/ go to it in an ie tab!

If you want I'll try to get 0rijin4l to make a userbar for Rainbow hats. (He designed my sig)

wikipedia has a decent explanation of white hat hacking http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_hat

As the article explains, white hat hacking is defined more by the ethics behind a hackers actions more then the actions themselves. In this particular instance, the ethical system is defined

* the belief that information-sharing is a powerful positive good, and that it is an ethical duty of hackers to share their expertise by writing free software and facilitating access to information and computing resources wherever possible; and/or

* the belief that system cracking for fun and exploration is ethically acceptable as long as the hacker commits no theft, vandalism, or breach of confidentiality.

So the real question becomes, what part of this ethical system is a problem for a rainbow hacker? Do they not believe in information sharing or do they believe that system cracking is always wrong, regardless of any actual harm done. And if a rainbow hat hacker believes in the above two premises, what actually differentiates him ethically from a white hat hacker?

EDIT: The script kiddie example you gave in the article I don't think is an accurate reflection of a white hacker activity. Giving out code in the such a manner that not only doesn't do much to teach anyone about security but seems to all but encourage malicious ignorant use of scripts is an unlikely activity for anyone who really is a white hat hacker. Grant it, a white hat hacker may believe in the free dessimation of information, and may feel that the knowledge reaching malicious users is inevitable, but it is still contrary to the definition to encourage malicious use.

Black Hats

Not really much to say here. They are malicious and bad for the internet. The definition is; A malicious hacker who exploits - or publicises - a security weakness before informing the affected organisation. This destorys companies. How is that good?

Not entirely correct and very one sided

like ive said there has been other artilces on this already…

http://www.hellboundhackers.org/readarticle.php?article_id=410

we need to stop worrying about hats. seriously if you want to know what a true hacker is and how he can be represented read my OLD article on it.

http://www.hellboundhackers.org/readarticle.php?article_id=67

one of the best article that i have written a long time ago

Explain what is wrong with my definition of a BHH and white hats do generally report problems to sites such as milworm so that still get recognition.

i dont think it was your view… atleast i dont.

i just think this hat thing is getting way… way out of hand.

thers only 3 -black -grey -white

thats it. just stick with that. ppl are trying to be different and make up hats. no problem do that. If Microsoft can make up the blue hat then you can make up the rainbow hat.

if you dont think you fall in the cat of black or white… then you are grey thats how it works. If you dont want to be grey then just claim yourself as an individual that doesnt go with the hat idea. NO ONE said you had to have a hat. I dont. I only have a title. That title is "Network Security Advisor"

Thucydides wrote: wikipedia has a decent explanation of white hat hacking http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_hat

As the article explains, white hat hacking is defined more by the ethics behind a hackers actions more then the actions themselves. In this particular instance, the ethical system is defined

* the belief that information-sharing is a powerful positive good, and that it is an ethical duty of hackers to share their expertise by writing free software and facilitating access to information and computing resources wherever possible; and/or

* the belief that system cracking for fun and exploration is ethically acceptable as long as the hacker commits no theft, vandalism, or breach of confidentiality.

So the real question becomes, what part of this ethical system is a problem for a rainbow hacker? Do they not believe in information sharing or do they believe that system cracking is always wrong, regardless of any actual harm done. And if a rainbow hat hacker believes in the above two premises, what actually differentiates him ethically from a white hat hacker?

EDIT: The script kiddie example you gave in the article I don't think is an accurate reflection of a white hacker activity. Giving out code in the such a manner that not only doesn't do much to teach anyone about security but seems to all but encourage malicious ignorant use of scripts is an unlikely activity for anyone who really is a white hat hacker. Grant it, a white hat hacker may believe in the free dessimation of information, and may feel that the knowledge reaching malicious users is inevitable, but it is still contrary to the definition to encourage malicious use.

I pritty mutsh agree whit this and i agree whit you on that hes comend on black hats was totaly off…

But everything is based on moral (your OWN moral whitch is not ALWAYS the same as others!!!!!!!!)

Ps: no need to dubble post hack4you ;)

lol one day youll be asked..

Noob - "So what hat are you?" You - "Oh me? im a RAINBOW hat." Noob - runs away

Wahahah! !!!!B) goog one (rainbow hat name sucks)

Well maybe it is because you only see the world in black and white that you see people as being Black - Grey - White hat. I feel that RHs sum them all up and let people express what they really are

honestly i couldnt care less* about hats, hats are stupid and a waiste of time. just do your thing whatever it is and move on. regardless to whatever hat you feel you should be in or make up.

if you classify yourself in a hat group, your only limiting yourself. and no. Rainbow hat does not solve that problem.

There can not be more hats then the 2 original. White and Black. grey? wtf.. people just couldnt choose. You dont need to choose. there is no right or wrong hat. Accept that fact.

oh and.. black hats? dont criticize us if youve never been a true one.

Hats are pointless. Either you hack or you don't.

n3w7yp3 wrote: Hats are pointless. Either you hack or you don't.

I can't quite agree with you.

I think hats are great as a short summary of your ethics, the kind of thing that might crop up in coversation, like "I'm a white hat. You?".

However, if you get in a full blown discussion about ethics and hacking, then throw hats out the window.

Hats are a simplification of a complicated issue. Treat them as such.

mozzer, definitely i need a sig like yours for me!! It rocks! Userbar would be cool but i dont like using them that much.

I agre that hats are useful but I think that there needs to be better clarification on the hatting system

mozzer wrote: I agre that hats are useful but I think that there needs to be better clarification on the hatting system

http://www.hbhzine.com/frozenflame/flash/hats.html theres your clarification :D

HAHAHAHAHAHA bloody awsome!

hack4you makes valid points and your view on hats is pretty messed up. You talk as if blackhats are all jerkoffs or somthing

I'm not sure if frozen flames/ hack4u's classification is exactly what mozzer was looking for, but funny all the same

Hats are stupid… if people just keep making new ones the entire point of hacing hats is gone. hats are there to sum up in two word what kinda ethics you believe in. if you have to explain each time wtf your hat means then the purpose is gone.

"Im gonna be a poo hat hacker coz i only hack peoples sites if they put my head down the toilet. "

it would jsut get stupid.

MetalDawg wrote: hack4you makes valid points and your view on hats is pretty messed up. You talk as if blackhats are all jerkoffs or somthing

In my opinion, black hats are usually immature people and "jerkoffs" as you say, I know that this may sound like an extreme generalization, but from my experience it is usually the truth. A Black hat is defined (As far as I know) by a person that hacks without ethics. Anybody that would destroy a website just because he can is not a good person in my book.

I do think that the use of the 3 main hats is useful though because it can quickly let another person know your intentions and reasons for hacking.

well thats what me and frozenflame were trying to get at with our little thing. we might be adding more later. :D

Hats are gay. Want a generalization for passing conversation? say: I don't break computer-related laws I do break computer related laws

There you go.

OFF TOPIC*

also,l I'd like to take a second to get pissed off. WTF is up with this "get racism off the net" junk. I mean, hell yeah, I HATE racists! But I also believe in this idea that EVERYONE can believe what they want to, whether I like it or not. It's a common theme in democracy, it's called the freedom of speech/press. Nearly every common day democracy/republic has a right along these lines. This right should NEVER be limited, by the government or otherwise, unless saying it puts others at risk (ie, libel or yelling fire in a crowded room)

you get pissed when people silence you because you are a hacker. If we allow them to take away other's freedom of speech (or worse yet, we take down their websites and take away their right), how long will it be before they target us?

Freaking tards. It's called Voltaire. Read it. Hes only a father of the political philosophy you have learned to cherish.

starts a slow clap that turns into an uproar

There can not be more hats then the 2 original. White and Black. grey? wtf.. people just couldnt choose.

I think your wrong to say you can only be a black hat or white hat. A white hat is [insert your custom definition here], and a black hat is [insert your custom definition here].

There's alot of different ideas connected to the hats. But I think one thing think that most people agree on is: White hats report exploits, to improve websites. Im not too sure on what the common cenception is of a black hat, but I think tthe basic idea is that they don't inform the website of their exploits, but hack them, for a specific reason.

Now, thats a basic and vague description that will fit most peoples ideas. A gray hat is simply someone who does not fit into either category. There's no rainbow hat, purple hat, red hat, burgundy had, turquoise hat, light green with a hint of orange hat……. If your not a white hat or black hat, then your a gray hat. Your not "undecided", you just don't fit into a specified category.

Im a gray hat, but I only say that because I'm not a black hat, and Im not a white hat. Mozzer, you can say your a rainbow hat if you want, but your description pretty much makes you out to be a white hat. If not, a gray hat. If not that, a black hat.

Pick one, or don't pick one at all. Your a hacker all the same. As for me, to contradict what Ive just said, Im a freaking Pot Hat ! :D

Thats just my opinion, AbSoRB

ehh im just going to lock this thread. i can see that it wont be long before bad arguements come up and id rather not deal with it later. Discussion closed!