Silly Kiddies...
Do not reply to this, this was a study that I was doing, the results will be posted soon, but until then, this thread is for discussing whatever you want, no more agreements or disagreements;; Also: All opinions I stated weren't and aren't totally backed by me, they are meant solely for the study and as such I take no responsibility for any and all damages and/or conflicts caused by said opinions;;
Study over;; See red post on page 7 for further details
[Edit] Please note: I agree with black hats and white hats on different things; I am using this post to talk about script kiddies and no hackers at all; Some white hats piss me off, some black hats, but almost all skiddies completely and totally annoy me; -Deshouleres
" Silly script kiddies, hacking is for information, for freedom, for a finally and true free internet… Don't deface my kingdom without a good reason…"
I may not be a respected or well known hacker, but that is a good thing in my book. Is hacking not the seeking out of information, or empowering yourself to bring about reform which can not be attained physically or monetarily otherwise. Causing the revolution waiting and sleeping, until it is awakened and goes on a rampage. Technology becomes our weapon against the tyrants of this world, and yet we have those among us who learn, study, and practice just to destroy our world we are attempting to reform. Even lesser than them are the beings that copy and paste codes that aren't even theirs, stealing the child of a programmer they have never met, they call it their own and raise it to destroy the world. This can not continue, now perhaps it has never occured, but we need to reform the 'hacker community' if you could consider it that… I prefer 'Informationally equipped reform seekers' community' but that is just me. If you agree that the reform should not only apply to the government in place which causes oppression and problems to all, but rather those among us that bring such problems upon our shoulders, please leave a comment either stating "I agree" or "I disagree" then, if you wish to state a reason, or another comment leave a line of %'s beneath your agreement or disagreement, then type your comment. I thank you for reading this, and hopefully if enough support is acquired me may be able to begin to fix our run-down S.kiddy infested world into a glorious kingdom…
Of course, this is only my opinion/idea, if you can't stand it, don't reply, just leave… if you can't stand to be civil, don't waste our space/time, just leave. It is very simple. Thank you again for taking the time to read my stupid/pointless thoughts.
-Deshouleres
Agreements so far:
- Mr_Cheese
- shadow_x
- WaTcHeR
- wolfmankurd
- n3w7yp3
- kocdorian
- Summerica
- TornDirt
- omnipresence
- BMB
- probe_ike
- @nny
- Nostur
- HvT
- iamgodoffire
- synstealth
- Kazuo
- AbSoRb
- SkinSider
- TommyCat
- Codemonkey
- Haykuro
- hell_flame85
- soulbuster
- xdanx
- lucid_dream
- master of disaster
- BluMoose
- ruairidh
- Kalkran
- Casper
- G-Prime
- system_meltdown
- The_Cell
- RedDwarf
- sralmai
- juhroen
[url=http://hellboundhackers.org/fusion_forum/ viewthread.php?forum_id=14&thread_id=426#2846]
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Code below (( Remove the stars ))
[center] [url=http://hellboundhackers.org/fusion_forum/ viewthread.php?forum_id=14&thread_id=426#2846] [img]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y137/dpgraphics/Skiddies.png[/img][/url] [/center]
Mr_Cheese wrote: i completly agree, however you'll never be able to get rid of SK's.
Perhaps if this were to be spread throughout the site, people who don't know what skiddies are yet will attempt somewhat to stop the infection. I didn't say it would come about quickly, but if people who agree spread the message of this post, it might help on this site, then maybe on HTS, and it could continue on…
Just put this in your sig, if you wish to contribute, and put a link to this thread… that is all that would be needed to help.
-Deshouleres
metsoc30 wrote: I'm sorry but everytime I read this topic "Silly kiddies" I'm reminded of the old Trix commercials ("Silly rabbit, Trix are for kids"). …
I was actually hungry for trix at the time… hehe… that was just supposed to get peoples attention so that they would read it… nice spotting… :)
-Deshouleres
metsoc30 wrote: Do you have a plan for getting rid of the skiddies?
yes, get hackers who are in it for information together, once we have many people who know how to program, we go through the internet and any form of skiddie gets either neutralized (I.E. downloadable progs removed) or destroyed (Remove entire sites)… I didn't say it would be legal, but skiddies must be stopped… of course if anyone else has any ideas, we can do many things, but skiddies have to be stopped, they are becoming too much of an irritation.
IDK, maybe I am too hopeful
Deshouleres wrote: [quote]metsoc30 wrote: Do you have a plan for getting rid of the skiddies?
yes, get hackers who are in it for information together, once we have many people who know how to program, we go through the internet and any form of skiddie gets either neutralized (I.E. downloadable progs removed) or destroyed (Remove entire sites)… I didn't say it would be legal, but skiddies must be stopped… of course if anyone else has any ideas, we can do many things, but skiddies have to be stopped, they are becoming too much of an irritation.
IDK, maybe I am too hopeful[/quote]sounds like a little vigilantism, sweet!
metsoc30 wrote: sounds like a little vigilantism, sweet!
What, you thought that we would just ask them nicely? Why not use the powers you have, and white hats won't lose their status because they are merely taking out the trash, grey hats will enjoy it, because they get to destroy things and take out the trash, and black hats, they might jump in because everyone hats script kiddies.
I must say this is pretty stupid. I'm not saying I'm any better, but this entire community is 99% idiots. I guess I can't call you 'script kiddies,' because you don't all ask how to hax0r hotmail. Ok, so what? No one here has any real skills associated with the term hacker.
I've yet to see anyone here produce anything of any worth to society. No great writing, DEFINITELY not good art desipite the "artist's" own opinion, certainly no 'hacking' skills, no great work coding. What I see is a lot of talk ABOUT what it is to be a hacker, or the terminology involved.
I see a lot of talk about how linux is so leet, and yet all the articles here are involving windows. So many of the articles as well as just as 'skiddy-like' as what people here define.
Whats this sudden craze with Social Engineering? For gods sake people, theres a difference between being tricky and 'social engineering.'
The articles here are the only thing worthwhile anymore.. Most of them are plagurized, or close enough. Reading an article while witing on article on the same subject just doesn't work. Its still not yours, and you end up losing too much information. The few that aren't plagurized either suck, contain no good information, describe something pointless, seem to be written by a monkey, or all of the above.
White hat, black hat, gray hat? What the hell. You guys don't DO anything, just talk about it. Enough with the damn hats.
Once again, I claim not to be better than what I described. Just aware.
I'd just like all the talk of Script Kiddies, the meaning of the term Hacker, Cracker, the words Social Engineering, and all this shit to stop. Isn't the whole point of this to work with information? I see no information. Learn to write, write your OWN material. Learn, hack, prevent hackers, whatever. I don't care. Just don't sit there talking about it.
Whoever wrote that article about 15 ways to help you stay out of jail? Holy shit. 1.Never tell anyone you are a hacker
2.Never hack without a proxy
3.Always use a proxy when doing anything remotely illegal
Wow. Let's see, how many errors in the first three. 1, apparently you tell people you're a hacker. Idiot, and a hypocrite. 2, Proxy for what? HTTP, FTP? I don't know about you, but on a daily basis, a lot more packets sent out by my computer don't rely on those two protocols. Don't you dare try and tell me that EVERY packet from your computer uses a proxy, of course. And also, proxy or not, your ISP knows whats going on. 3, Why not have this instead of 2?
It just seems like everyones got a lot of talk, and no action.
You may say the same about me. Think about what I'm saying. I am acting. I am stating my opinion on the whole fucking subject. C'mon people. Get a brain of your own.
The sad part: This applies to the staff as well. The only one I've seen with half a brain here is Metsoc.
Very nice… thousandtoone, I doubt others will enjoy your comment as much as I did, but I really thought it was good; Why not submit an article about it ;) I am just messing around; And yes many people only talk, that is all they do, I realize that it is all talk, I never said I would take action tomorrow or even a week from now, I still have much to learn, we all do; Once you know everything there is to know, why be a hacker; I do beleive people use the word hacker a bit too much, to describe many different types of people overall, and I tend to use black, grey and white hat in order to inform others as to my projections of that type of person in a simple way; Course, nothing is perfect, the internet still isn't free; Testing the limits of a site just to see how much it takes to control it, even for that slight amount of time is looked down upon;
'hacking' = 99.9% study .1% action
Thank you for the collective insult though, seeing as that is from your viewpoint, and you may be incorrect on a few members (Not saying me, but members) but who cares, it is your opinion.
Either way, nice post, it actually added something to the post; However, you could have been nice and put " I disagree"
(( Edit ))
Also, I beleive one of the reasons it seems like all talk and no action, is because actions being known=bragging; bragging=attention; attention=traceable if wanted; traceable=trouble; Overall, just remember to look at both sides of the argument, people may not be doing 'actions' because that would leave a trail of evidence… just a thought
yet again thousandtoone, has only used 3 brain cells before he makes a post.
Your whole post was basically a "HBH only talk about hacking, and are noobs"… well i shall correct you…
It is only very stupid people who sign up to a hacking site, then start posting in the forums a list of all the sites they've hacked + going to hack + how they going to do it. Not to mention its illegal and would put this site as risk. I know that all of the HBH admin, have stories to tell and experiance etc etc.. But just because we / i am not stupid enough to brag about them, does not mean we do not possess the skills. Im sure this is also correct with alot of other members on the site.
Further more, your comments about the artciles, the staff / members are not responisble for what is posted. Admittedly there are alot of crap articles, but they may appeal to someone. Just with any large community hacking site, for every decent artcle you get 6 crap ones submitted by people to make their profile look better. There is little we can do.
Well I was considering that certain 'hackers' aka information seekers might not be able to access this site, or don't wish to, in order to sign the petition and join forces against skiddies, so I might decide to make a one-page web-petition where you can sign saying what you think; Perhaps two columns, one for and one against;
If anyone is interested in doing so with me, perhaps making it more than one page, PM me, if not, just sign here;
Thanks for reading
The only way to remove all of the script kiddies is to remove all of the white hats. White hats find vulnerabilities and alert the whole world so that vendors and customers can patch themselves. There will always be those who "hold off" on patching. Script kiddies find these white hat alerts and copy and paste the Proof of Concept code and ruin tons of unpatched computers. Now if you suggest that white hats stop alerting the entire world of holes, then you've got a massive black hat attack. As the world knows nothing of their vulnerabilities, black hats slowly find them and exploit THOUSANDS of machines. So here we see that the SK depends on the white hat and the removal of the white hat may decrease the SK but increases the damage of the black hat. How about we remove the black hat now? Oh look, no more hackers :(.
So the balance between SKs, White Hats, and Black Hats must stay equal. Script kiddies use white hat's announcements to destroy boxes which the white hat is then hired to fix and secure from the black hats. Many times, the black hats find the holes before the white hats, thus the white hats depend on the black hats to identify the holes and announce which is then used by the SK.
This is most likely very confusing and poorly structured :\
Oh well, the only way to remove any type of hacker (SK, WH, BH) is to remove all of the hackers which can never happen.
Assassin8 wrote: The only way to remove all of the script kiddies is to remove all of the white hats …
Nice reply (Even though you didn't put I disagree or agree); I am not saying it will just happen, but if script kiddies are hated in many different communities, then the white hats (or gray hats) find the meeting places/comm. of SK's, and 'remove' the infection; Black hats could also join in just for the mischeif; It is possible to remove SK's, and I would be willing to work with black hats to do as such; Black hats are misguided, script kiddies are horrid kidnappers of code, and as such should be punished; Black hats still learn even if it is for a bad cause; Even though I disagree with you on this one, I love the way you set it up, very nice;
- Respect for you
Thanks for posting
I've yet to see anyone here produce anything of any worth to society. No great writing, DEFINITELY not good art desipite the "artist's" own opinion, certainly no 'hacking' skills, no great work coding.
Aw, that would sting if I had any functioning emotion. I will agree with Deshouleres.
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% By agreeing I am not saying that there are no script kiddies or skiddy-like items on this site, I am just saying that their existence does annoy me. Especially the ones that take something and try to pose as if it is their very own. I will admit to having a slight desire for things that do not belong to me, but I would never go out and claim them to be my own. As for the activity part, Mr_Cheese has a point; in the internet it is far better to be underestimated. %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
Summerica wrote: Aw, that would sting if I had any functioning emotion. I will agree with Deshouleres.
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% By agreeing I am not saying that there are no script kiddies or skiddy-like items on this site, I am just saying that their existence does annoy me. Especially the ones that take something and try to pose as if it is their very own. I will admit to having a slight desire for things that do not belong to me, but I would never go out and claim them to be my own. As for the activity part, Mr_Cheese has a point; in the internet it is far better to be underestimated. %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
Yes, finally someone followed the instructions, thank you; Adding you to the list;
Thank you, Deshouleres
P.S. ++ Respect for you
omnipresence wrote: I agree!
..::Even though I agree ponder on this point. If you truely want a skid free internet, the only way to really do it is to take away the internet! Im sorry but that will be the only way.::..
I realize a skid free internet would be hard, but hell, I think it is a possibility to atleast get to a level that they just give up and move onto IDK xbox or something; Not that I want them to move on, but we all know they can't just disappear; Perhaps if hackers everywhere stop tolerating them though, we will get rid of them, doing things such as conceling your programs that you write for fun, or denying helping out a skiddie; That is atleast what I think; Thanks for the support…
I have a GREAT idea. ALthough it will take many years.
–We could start around to all the hacker groups that we would like a less skiddish enviornment and see if they agree.
–If we end up with a lot of hackers agreeing with us we propose the idea of a universal skid sweap which would include them actually takeing themselfs out. We could state that there is an elite computer (IP number 127.0.0.1)that is only for hackers. It will allow you to hack in and do what ever you want! (Just dont get cought)
–most skidds would be like alright my first IP address! Lets check it out. Then find out that they can get in really easy. And knowing most skids they would only fuck something up. Thus takeing themselfs of the internet!
–or I need to go to bed. Dont know which one yet. :|
Sometimes on net, i meet interesting people… people like deshouleres, they want to tunr the world to better, to dismis skiddies, what are using Nuke and trojans to "hack" computers, using exploits, invented by much better people, they are only doing bad, if they delete server, they are happy, and they must tell anyone else, taht they are REAL hackers, they completely deleted some site…. ok, I never hacked anything, i never pwned web server or anyone else's PC, why? because i want to find my way through cyberspace, i dont want people to invent exploits and then i use them, i want to find them by myself, maybe iam not as good as people on this site, like Cheese, Deshoul, nights and much, much more people, i dont want to spam forums and boards with questions like "How I can use Brute?" I WAS skiddie,but thanks to people on boards, thanks to my brother, i consider myself as "on the way to be a hacker", i dont know, how will u consider me, but iam trying my best. deshouleres 1st. post:Totall agreement
metsoc30 wrote: Do you have a plan for getting rid of the skiddies?
**Deshouleres wrote:**yes, get hackers who are in it for information together, once we have many people who know how to program, we go through the internet and any form of skiddie gets either neutralized (I.E. downloadable progs removed) or destroyed (Remove entire sites)… I didn't say it would be legal, but skiddies must be stopped… of course if anyone else has any ideas, we can do many things, but skiddies have to be stopped, they are becoming too much of an irritation.
IDK, maybe I am too hopeful
If you get a group of hackers together in it for the "information" then tell them to begin programming malicious trojans and virii they are no longer in it for the information are they? Infact your idea of elminating SK's sounds alot like personnal gain.
That must mean your a cracker gasp or maybe a script kiddie yourself?
Unless you were joking.
The "hacker race" would immediately drop in population if this mass script kiddie sweap would occur. Most great hackers started off as SKs because that was what seemed easiest and still got the job done.
Instead of eliminating the script kiddies, why not educate the script kiddies.
I'm sure over two thirds of the intelligent members here started off as unknowing script kiddies. And we all would have remained that way if weren't for that one push. That bit of information on REAL hacking. It gets you excited and makes you feel apart of something.
How about starting a website like a hacker school. Invite anybody you see that appears to be a script kiddie or just an eager to learn newb. Then set up a schedule and everything. You could have classes in IRC (with mute on). You could have "eText Books" which are whitepapers explaining more indepth of what was discussed in class and available on the website. And you could even have homework. Like finding an exploit in a mock website.
Heck I'm exciting myself just thinking about this. If anyone wants to start something like this I'll help as much as I can!
WaTcHeR wrote: Imm0rtal, In all due respect we would be doing people a favour, Just think about it. you make some great program and then it gets taken by some skiddie, who calls it there own? I know i wouldn't like that to happen to me.
Laters watcher:D
Generally if you make a great program. You put your hacker Alias/E-mail on it. If anyone stole my alias I would be mad.. Skiddie or not. But I see no problem with a skiddie using my program if I made it for him. My name would be on it anywase.
EDIT: Last Line Of Defence : BACKDOOR
If they can reverse your program. Find the backdoor and unpack the encryption and find my name and change it. Well that my friend is no skiddie. Place your efforts elsewhere.
Assassin8 wrote: The only way to remove all of the script kiddies is to remove all of the white hats. White hats find vulnerabilities and alert the whole world so that vendors and customers can patch themselves. There will always be those who "hold off" on patching. Script kiddies find these white hat alerts and copy and paste the Proof of Concept code and ruin tons of unpatched computers. Now if you suggest that white hats stop alerting the entire world of holes, then you've got a massive black hat attack. As the world knows nothing of their vulnerabilities, black hats slowly find them and exploit THOUSANDS of machines. So here we see that the SK depends on the white hat and the removal of the white hat may decrease the SK but increases the damage of the black hat. How about we remove the black hat now? Oh look, no more hackers :(.
So the balance between SKs, White Hats, and Black Hats must stay equal. Script kiddies use white hat's announcements to destroy boxes which the white hat is then hired to fix and secure from the black hats. Many times, the black hats find the holes before the white hats, thus the white hats depend on the black hats to identify the holes and announce which is then used by the SK.
This is most likely very confusing and poorly structured :\
Oh well, the only way to remove any type of hacker (SK, WH, BH) is to remove all of the hackers which can never happen.It's like the ying, the yang and … the yong. Three parts that must all be present to maintain balance.
i agree but i also think that i would first try to educate one. as much as i could and if that would not work then i might do the mr cheese way of uber_h4X0r_pr0gr4m.exe . but only if they would not listen and at least try to learn. i mean i myself was once a skid. (luckly i tought myself quite quickly the errors of my ways) and if we can change them and make them join our side not only did we get rid of one more script kiddy but we also got a future hacker who will help our couse.
metsoc30 wrote: [quote]Assassin8 wrote: Heck I'm exciting myself just thinking about this. If anyone wants to start something like this I'll help as much as I can!WHOA! I don't want to see Assassin exciting himself, that's just wrong![/quote] lol, anyhow educating is a better idea, it's the only possible solution., they'll always be somewhere on the net, so that's the best choice.
well i am 12, only just started learning to hack. I know some PHP, HTML, CSS, JavaScript, a bit of Flash, some C++(not much) and i have another hacking website called Elite Coders. I am still a noob and sometimes think of myself as a bit of a SK, but not much, I really only learn from other peoples codes/exploits, then do it myself, except for on HTS, where there is a spoiler in every forum thread…
Anyway, i agree, and i will help out as much as i can, but i dont think we will ever be able to eliminate the SK infection completely.
Everyone post 1996 and Aleph1's "Smashing the Stack for Fun and Profit" is supposedly a script kiddy. Hell, most "hackes" probably can't successfully perform a buffer overflow anyways. We've been babied into things in this information age. No one has to do the debugging, or be innovative anymore. I got into this hacking programming whatever deal about a year ago and it's great, i'm 15, but the fact is we're all script kiddies just trying to learn about computers, and rarely are any of us doing the dirty work ourselves. And I don't know how you are gonna break that trend. I think what you guys really want to break is ignorance and apathy in a community, because that's the real poison.
And don't reply to people who make questions about keyloggers/trojans/viruses, unless it's clearly a resonable question. That'll stomp a few losers to the dirt.
I am back, I wasn't able to reply due to me helping out for some charity thing for the past 2 weeks, sorry much; The education thing would work, I am not saying we need to go around and destroy every single box that has a program on it not made by them, hell that would wipe out most peoples comps, I am saying stop the infection, we can educate, we can make sites that are made purely for the skiddies to take their anger\rebel rage out on, we can do whatever, but I am tired of visiting a site and wondering " How long until some bastard with a program he downloaded and a couple of hours with nothing to do going to come and destroy my happiness, I don't like leaving my joy up to someone else; Besides that, this is our kingdom, our home, our whatever you wish to call it, would you let someone come in your room and re-arrange it how they wanted it? I wouldn't; Education would be fine, but how do we know that they will come, we don't until we get the word out; Most of us started out as skiddies, but once you realize that and change it it doesn't matter what you used to be, those who know they are fakes and do nothing to change it are the ones I hate;
If you have any hate mail feel free to swarm my house and hand it to me personally, but you would have to find out where I live ;)
-Deshouleres
I agree.
I've only been learning very recently about hacking, and dont know very much about programs or codes, but here's my opinion.
A hacking school site, or someting like that, would be a brilliant idea for both new budding hackers, and SK's who are willing to learn and turn over a new leaf. These people are the ones we should teach, and guide them along the right path. But, all the SKs who are unwilling to learn, and dont care for the freedom of the internet, or the flow of information shouldnt be tolerated. Then comes the deleting of their programs, and anything else we want to do to them ;)
I'll try to help in anyway i can to educate or oblitterate the skript kiddies of the internet.
- AbSoRb
I'm going to get flamed for this big time but whatever
I am not the one to diss about anything quickly but in the other hand even i have my limits. You say you are going to "wipe the internet clean of skiddies". Now one thing i have learned while staying online for way too much time is that 3/4 th of the population is script kiddies. I'm not saying that you are all script kiddies but to call yourself hackers the minute you come on this site and do a couple of challenges or post a few intellectual posts would be wrong. I've been spending some time getting to know computers and websites and how they work etc but i would never call myself a hacker yet. The thing is that, atleast in my opinion, a hacker is somebody that you put infront of a computer or anything else in that matter and he makes it do exactly what he wants. Someone who knows the inside-out of a computer and knows exactly what the computer is doing at the moment. It is someone who dedicates all his free time just to learn how software and hardware works and how to manipulate it. Another thing is with the third party tools, it depends wich tools you use and wich you don't. For instance there is no point in reinventing the wheel cause it gets you nowhere(perhaps learning how it works, but that's where open source is for these days :) ). A hacker uses alot of his home made tools simply because he thinks that third party tools take the fun out of it. He wants to know how they work, what makes them do what they do etc. I agree that the so called script kiddies can be a pain in the ass but to whipe them out? Rather help them out , like some allready suggested. But there is a difference between newbies and script kiddies, like if they ask a dumb question and you give an answer there are 2 responses, 1)"K thnx for answering, i will try out the things you said." or 2) "You dumb fuck, if you don't know how to hack don't reply cause i'll ub3rL33t h4x0r your 4$$" (never mind the errors in the leetspeak, it's not my native language). Now you can guess wich one goes with what. The newbs want to learn, all they want is a little push and something to keep them motivated, so don't make the mistake of categorizing them under script kiddies, that would be a mistake at your end.
I'm going to stop here, i still have alot to say, and like i said: i am only stating my opinion. As strong as i protect my own freedom of speech i accept your so all comments etc, let me know, if it's direct assaults pm me and don't spam the board with it.
Cheers, Anarcho-Hippie - computer fanatic ;)
Hrm… well this is annoying… ** state whether you agree or not ** I do not care what you consider to be a hacker, so many forum topics have been made on this, go post it there, this isn't a post to become famous, but rather to help deal with a nuisance; … we have a forum topic for if you want to help with the school, make a topic about 'what a hacker really is' and type it there; As for this, when people reply I check for peoples agreements and any suggestions they have… btw only like one person has followed the seperator in between the " I agree" or "I disagree" and their comment… I wouldn't mind so much if people actually listened and made my job easier…
Follow the rules please…
i was reading thru some of the post and i saw someone is pissed off at the community for not suppying proper information yet only speaking of hacking, i have taken action, i have made about 10 videos teaching the daily user some underground hacking methods.. here is my site: http://www.lazzareth.com/haykuro/
I am the kind of hacker that was the original definition of a hacker, a experianced programmer. i dont call myself by the new sci-fi definition of a hacker. i am just a skilled programmer and an informationist.
not entirely..
most original hackers were just skilled at programming, because programming wus the only thing to do on the computer. when the internet came along, so did the new techniques of hacking those 2. wut do u think the original hackers programmed?
worms, login loggers, and mainly programs that wud do thinks originally unintended to be done.
yep. the actual word hacker in my view has many many many branches and categories.
heres a couple links to str8en some stuff out, this information wus actually researched and brodcasted on live TV meaning the show might still be available on the net somewhere..
A brief hacker history: http://tlc.discovery.com/convergence/hackers/articles/history.html
The true meaning of the word hacker: http://tlc.discovery.com/convergence/hackers/glossary/glossary.html
cracker n. One who breaks security on a system. Coined by hackers in defense against journalistic misuse of the term "hacker." The term "cracker" reflects a strong revulsion at the theft and vandalism perpetrated by cracking rings. There is far less overlap between hackerdom and crackerdom than most would suspect.
hacker n. 1. A person who enjoys exploring the details of programmable systems and how to stretch their capabilities. 2. One who programs enthusiastically. 3. A person who is good at programming quickly. 4. An expert at a particular program, as in "a Unix hacker." 5. [deprecated] A malicious meddler who tries to discover sensitive information by poking around. The correct term for this sense is "cracker."
that just about sums it up:o
disagree.
you're all just kiddies yourselves. would this mean that you need to 'neutralize' yourselves? probably. maybe instead we can get rid of the whitehats pr0j3kt m4yh3m style? how about all you so called 'greyhats' go fuck yourselves and learn that there is no such thing as a greyhat. in fact, greyhat-IS-whitehat.
deshoulderes and his fucking whitehat escapades can suck my penis, you whitehat scum. talk about kiddies… look at you, deshoulderes, you pathetic little imp. ur a fucking kiddiot who talks shit about other kiddiots… sounds completely fucking hypocritical to me. i agree with thousandtoone.
"har har har we're a bunch of hackers who 'hack' for educational purposes! look at us, we're sell out scenewhores/social whores who want to get rid of script kiddies, because we like setting tasks that we will never accomplish. then we can talk about how we never brag, so that people will be curious and think we actually did something." - Deshoulderes
fuck you. fuck the community, let alone helping it.
go make more signatures with your name on it that has code behind it that you didnt even write, you fucking leechers. NONE of you know shit. if you did you wouldnt have a fucking website with discussion forums, and admins who talk about how they like to give leet_hacking_tool.exe to kids who beg people for codez.
ur all a buncha ignorant fucktards who need to learn something, and stop talking about how you "probably could hack that site" but you "dont want to" or you "are way too ethical to do it." give me a fucking break. ur all fucking jokes. shit you guys hardly even qualify to be script kiddies. that would be giving you wayyyy too much credit.
Shut the fuck up you little ignorant piece of shit. Why don't you do us all a favor and jump off a fucking bridge. You're probably some fat-ass, pimple faced 13 year old how doesn't even know what the sun looks like any more. Take your ignorant, worthless excuse for knowledge elsewhere. Furthermore, learn how to fucking spell! God damn, I'm fucking sick of little shits like you that think you're all god-like because your mommy lets you on the computer past 8pm so you can act like your are some bad-ass dude. Seriously, get the fuck out and don't come back. None of your arguments make any sense or even have the slightest evidence to back them up. So take that fucking dildo out of your ass and SHUT THE FUCK UP!
Do you watch us while we're on the computer? Do you monitor our actions online? No, you don't so stop acting like you know what each and every one of us is like. From the way you speak, you sound like you're a fucking IRC whore. Get a life. What was your motivation to come to this website simply to try and downgrade all of us?
You think that having a discussion forum means we don't know anything? How the hell do you get that? We know that we don't know everything, that's why we have a forum, so we can SHARE our knowledge to help others.
Without white hats, idiots like you wouldn't have access to the internet.
Grey hats are white hats? Where do you get that? Grey hats act as white hats towards some and black hats towards others.
I'd REALLY like to see you tell some of the members here that they're script kiddies. Matter of fact, how about you come on over to enigmagroup.org and give that bullshit speech over there.
metsoc30 wrote: Shut the fuck up you little ignorant piece of shit. Why don't you do us all a favor and jump off a fucking bridge. You're probably some fat-ass, pimple faced 13 year old how doesn't even know what the sun looks like any more. Take your ignorant, worthless excuse for knowledge elsewhere. Furthermore, learn how to fucking spell! God damn, I'm fucking sick of little shits like you that think you're all god-like because your mommy lets you on the computer past 8pm so you can act like your are some bad-ass dude. Seriously, get the fuck out and don't come back. None of your arguments make any sense or even have the slightest evidence to back them up. So take that fucking dildo out of your ass and SHUT THE FUCK UP!
h0h0h0~
so you're some el8 haqr, and you come up here trying to tell me i'm fat person who hasn't seen the sun in so long, but then ur trying to tell me that im a kiddie? i smell contradictions! i don't care how old you think i am, you KIDDIOT. learn how to spell? i doubt i spelled much wrong… i dont know if i want to waste my time look back at my post though. and how do my arguments not make any sense? you should probably be the one shutting the fuck up. take a look at www.dikline.com … perhaps you'll find this little part " [hellboun.txt] 06-20-05 [ 39475] [hellboundhackers] [snif] [/home/hellboun/]" oh isn't that interesting? Hellbound hackers get owned. h0h0.
you people are a bunch of lamers. you have no idea what hacking is. hacking is about breaking into systems, nothing more, nothing less. you fags have been brainwashed by the security industry like a bunch of puppets. deny it all you want, but it doesnt mean it's not true. fucking morons…
you have no right talking shit – you dont know much of anything.
Deshouleres: ur a fucking puppet of the sec industry. do you know what happens to whitehats who are openly whitehat nowadays? if i were you i wouldnt post on bugtraq or any f-d mailing lists, or else you may get a big rm -rf /* and end up in one of h0no's zines.
you all need to shut the fuck up and stop acting tough. none of you fucking social whores who claim to be hackers, and set up some gay ass hacking website are actually the real deal. the guy who tol dme to go 'post this on enigmagroup.org' am i supposed to be afraid? i looked at their site and it was littered with whitehat lameness… and i quote:
"We are a non profit Hacking Organization here to provide you a safe and legal place to hack and learn some basics in hacking. We have many different challenges for you to test your aquired skills, or learn new ones along the way. Don't forget to visit the forums, and read all the articles you can, and feel free to post a few articles yourself. New ideas are submitted and reviewed on a daily basis, so suggest all you want too. Register, and join the group today!"
lame lame lame lame. real hackers dont need legal places to hack you fucking dorks.
all this fucking 'hacker' website/forum bullshit is just a way to increase the fucking hits on your website, and increase your popularity. this way everyone is like 'omg yeah ive heard of hellbound hackers, they are elite!' and they could never be more wrong.
maybe some day you will learn that hacking is about owning, and that greyhats ARE whitehats.
http://hysteria.sk/chroot/PHC/texts/
now i will laugh if you say PHC were kiddies. i will laugh if you say el8 were kiddies, and for fucks sake i will laugh even harder if you say h0no are kiddies. IGNORANT FUCKS, LEARN WHAT HACKING IS.
greyhat-IS-whitehat – if you dont understand this, your ignorant and hopeless until you come to an understanding. how many of you lamers can bypass PaX? shit, how many of you lamers know what PaX is? need i go further?
Of course the funniest thing about omg is that someone who is apparently intelligent enough to try and put down all 3500+ people who use this forum would even waste his time to do so, or in fact fall into the rut of arguing over terms, stereotyping people, and just using plain foul language when intellect fails to try and make a message clear.
FYI, it doesn't even matter what colour hats people want to talk, the only thing that matters is that you find a way to define yourself that gives you some sense of self-identity you can live with.
As for trying to put everybody on the forum down, it's clear to me you are a sad, lonely guy and the only way you can get attention is by throwing abuse out that you know will get a response, as you haven't the presence of mind to actually contribute anything useful to anyone.
Why don't you do us all a favour and go and do something constructive… GROW UP!
omg wrote:
take a look at www.dikline.com … perhaps you'll find this little part " [hellboun.txt] 06-20-05 [ 39475] [hellboundhackers] [snif] [/home/hellboun/]" oh isn't that interesting? Hellbound hackers get owned. h0h0.
LOL LOL LOL DUDE
[hellboun.txt] 06-20-05 [ 39475] [hellboundhackers] [snif] [/home/hellboun/]
you dumb ass, hellboun is not thier server directory, What a fucking n00b
Did you make all that up yourself?
I Have Seen it all!!! I can die in peace now!!!
Anarcho-Hippie wrote: I'm going to get flamed for this big time but whatever
I am not the one to diss about anything quickly but in the other hand even i have my limits. You say you are going to "wipe the internet clean of skiddies". Now one thing i have learned while staying online for way too much time is that 3/4 th of the population is script kiddies. I'm not saying that you are all script kiddies but to call yourself hackers the minute you come on this site and do a couple of challenges or post a few intellectual posts would be wrong. I've been spending some time getting to know computers and websites and how they work etc but i would never call myself a hacker yet. The thing is that, atleast in my opinion, a hacker is somebody that you put infront of a computer or anything else in that matter and he makes it do exactly what he wants. Someone who knows the inside-out of a computer and knows exactly what the computer is doing at the moment. It is someone who dedicates all his free time just to learn how software and hardware works and how to manipulate it. Another thing is with the third party tools, it depends wich tools you use and wich you don't. For instance there is no point in reinventing the wheel cause it gets you nowhere(perhaps learning how it works, but that's where open source is for these days :) ). A hacker uses alot of his home made tools simply because he thinks that third party tools take the fun out of it. He wants to know how they work, what makes them do what they do etc. I agree that the so called script kiddies can be a pain in the ass but to whipe them out? Rather help them out , like some allready suggested. But there is a difference between newbies and script kiddies, like if they ask a dumb question and you give an answer there are 2 responses, 1)"K thnx for answering, i will try out the things you said." or 2) "You dumb fuck, if you don't know how to hack don't reply cause i'll ub3rL33t h4x0r your 4$$" (never mind the errors in the leetspeak, it's not my native language). Now you can guess wich one goes with what. The newbs want to learn, all they want is a little push and something to keep them motivated, so don't make the mistake of categorizing them under script kiddies, that would be a mistake at your end.
I'm going to stop here, i still have alot to say, and like i said: i am only stating my opinion. As strong as i protect my own freedom of speech i accept your so all comments etc, let me know, if it's direct assaults pm me and don't spam the board with it.
Cheers, Anarcho-Hippie - computer fanatic ;)
Well said! Nailed it, tahts my exact same opinion!
I agree, I've come across a few too many annoying kiddies while asking for help, and its that second type of people that arent needed. Im a full out newbie, and ask for help on most things. However, i do it in a normal way, without acting arrogant. I learn from other people's code, does that make me a script kiddie?
If not, then I fully agree XD
omnipresence wrote: Damn dude, all of use are skiddies in someway. We all have taken someone elses code to learn from it. Even if we didnt run it, we still used it to learn. So technically we are all skids. lol.
There is a difference between reading code to learn how they did it and then applying it to your applications and just plain stealing code and using it without understanding WHY it grants you the access to information that you receive;
Major difference;
When I first seen this post I though "Yeah, I agree", then when I got to page 6, I came up with…
We all, as a people, have used something another person has wrote. So thats that out the door. Also, I got Cain&Able the other day, had a fiddle with it, done a challenge with it. Does that make me an SK? If I look at a tutorial telling me exactly how to use something to hack something, does that make me an SK? A tutorial telling me how to hack an md5 with Cain perhaps. If I use an exploit that someone else has found on a website myself, does that make me an SK? Where would we be on the challenges if we couldn't use someone elses' exploit?
So, in order to not be a script kiddie we have to code our own programs and find our own exploits? That would be hughely tiresome and have a hughe impact on the community, and open source community too.
I think we all fall under the same category at the end of the day: Hackers. I just think those that are out there that abuse this community for a quick laugh and to show off, will do one of two things:1.Give up and go back to Teenchat. 2.Become someone who has learn't to appreciate the community and everything that has been provided.
I think omg, although he spoke utter nonsense, provided some good reading in those text files. I may be wrong, but if they consider themselves "script kiddies", fair enough. If they can do all what was in that text, for good or bad, white vs black, congratulations. So just let them fade in, then fade back out again soon. If not be glad, they may release a tool one dat that would make your job alot easier.
So. Agree. Dissagree. I agree to tell someone who persistantly asks for Hotmail hacks to send an email to "adminbot@hotmail.com" to get any password they like. I dissagree with getting rid of those who might actually become "l33t".
Deshouleres wrote: Amazing how most of the people that agree aren't even past basic 5 or 6;; Haven't done any missions at all… ugh;;
Pointless don't you think, when it gets agreed upon and most of the people who agree just as soon ask where to download a trojan…
Eh oh well;; Happy hunting all Dude… I'm not even gonna say it, because I know every single person here fucking hates me and would turn on me in a second. But let me say this: I dont do HBH's missions because:
- I dont feel like having to prove to you all that I'm a hacker by wasting all of my time.
- Why should I waste my time hacking a bunch of fake machines and non existant boxes when there are things out there that need to be done?
- No offense, but alot of HBH's missions arent that high quality, and that I cannot stand, so I take my time hacking real boxes and looking for holes in different Content Management Systems. Why do you think you're the only moral and right person on the web? You act like it all the time, and I'm tired of it. Be nice to people, if you disagree with them, only do something if it needs to be done. By the way, why do you insist on constantly using the semicolon? Does it make you feel like a cool programmer or something because to me it's just annoying and it messes up your sentence structure. True, there are those here who are script kiddies and will still say that they agree with you, but you shouldnt base that simply on whether theyve bothered to do a few challenges. No offense, dude, but you really need to not be so full of yourself.
Hey Desy. Want to know something? You argument about how most people that agree are just as likely to ask where to download a trojan is Null and void. Here is why there are people here such as Xer0X that feel these missions are waste of time, so they dont do them.
Also I have 1160 points on this site and I dont feel that I am a web hacker. I only have extreamly basic knowledge and could'nt hack my leg off with a scalpal and bone saw.
So no I do not find that any ones oppinion on this matter is worth less than the best hacker at HBh. If this is how you think Desy then my opinion has been lessened of you.
P.S. Please don't get pissed off by this. If you disagree lets just have a civil discussion.
:) Wow you all misunderstood;; I meant the people that have no siggies, no avies, no post counts, no points, and no reason to be posting in here… I meant the people who did join to say "How do I hack hotmail" and so they have a total of maybe 3 posts;;
Looking back I understood how you all misunderstood me;; BTW, I am not high and mighty but if you all feel that way I will just delete the thread (Or ask for it to be deleted) I just wanted to make the internet a better place… Eh?
Hi, I need a clarification on the definition of SK before I agree or disagree.. Take this case for example: A guy looks through a vulnerability listing and finds an exploit, say an SQL injection vulnerability or code injection vuln or somethin' in some webapp. He knows enough about SQL injections to know how they work.He knows enough about google and queries to find vulnerable targets. He finds some targets. He hacks into them and while at it, finds a new vuln in the software. He uses both ways to hack the sites and defaces them(can be anythin' from a small HTML comment to a full-fledged defacement with big fonts and JS alert boxes) but leaves the site content intact. Then he informs the admin of the security hole and exactly how to fix it. This person is someone I know. He knew what he was doing, how to fix the only etc.. He only used an exploit found by someone else, cuz he is too lazy or frustrated after going through lots of code trying to find vulnerabilites. I have heard some ppl say that defacements are gay and that only skiddies do defacements. Does this classify him as a skiddie? I need a clarification.Thanx
Thomas
I agree with thomas.
No one wants to reinvent the wheel, a.k.a. y shud u waste ur time trying to break into something that has already been broken into?
Although after breaking in if all u do is destroy and smash and become the cyber hulk then i'd concider u a SK. if u get in and look around to try and find more vulnerabilities or just get in and tell the guy he's vulnerable to an old attack, i'd concider u not an SK
Disagree.
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
Conditionally.
Definitely an interesting concept, and no doubt started with the best of intentions. It largely comes down to perception on terms, so I want to be a little more clear, and I will attempt to stay on track with the original point. I find the original post to be a little difficult to follow, so I apologize in advance if I'm a little off topic.
I agree that some 'script kiddies' can certainly be annoying.
I disagree that they all are, and I disagree on the concept of 'eliminating' them. I definitely disagree that there's nothing that can be done about them. Xer0X summed it up perfectly. To paraphrase, "the solution begins and ends with education". Is that not what majority of these 'hacker challenge' sites are all about?
<init_rambling>
As for definitions, any person who has done their research can easily point out the 'classical' definitions of hacker and cracker, and the differences that they contain. However, it cannot be argued that those definition have evolved over time. After all, the original definition of 'virus' mentioned nothing to do with code or computers, and yet the definition has evolved to include the vernacular. As such, I personally use the commonly accepted evolved definition of 'hacking' and 'cracking'.
I think that the reference of 'script kiddie' comes down to someone who want to use pre-existing work, but does not care to understand the fundamentals upon which it is based.
All in all, I applaud sites like HBH. They do a great thing by allowing a place where people can learn more about a wide variety of subjects. Maybe you're not a hacker, nor wish to be one (hat colors aside), but learning how they think and what they deal with is an extremely beneficial journey that you can use to apply to any number of fields. Mathematics, programming, hardware, security, cryptology, algorithms, data structures, etc etc.
Personally, I originally started down this path to try to understand how to write more secure code, and I can't believe how much I've learned on that journey.
It's also worth mentioning that it's too superficial to judge the 'worthiness' of people based on the lowly criteria of points alone. We've all got to start somewhere, so be merciful to someone who wants to better themselves by spending time learning more about a particular subject. It's very easy to look down upon someone when you're at a higher level than they are. Next time you do, I hope it's because you're offering your hand down to the next person to help them up. =)
Thank you
I would like to personally thank you all for taking part (Unknowingly) in a study;; If you wish to have your name removed from this study, please state so beneath this post;; Your input has been greatly appreciated;; Seeing as the study is in its final stages ((Aka Conclusion)) I would like to ask you all to ignore what is said in the first post;; I will be promptly blacking it out;; Remove the signitures if you wish, or if you wish to advertise it for historical means, do as such;;
-Deshouleres
Thank you again…
That used to be the case, but today, with the proliferation of webbased tools (eg: msfweb), its gotten so easy that many of the script kiddies have moved away from the ./leet_spl0it, and have been using the webbased tools with IE.
There was a study about it on SANS a while back.. as the internet and computers themselves become more and more user friendly, people get more and more comfortable with technology, but yet they actually learn less in the course of using it..
Anyways, thats just my 0.02. And, desholures, I'd like to see that report of yours. It'll probably be really interesting. ;)
Hmm, its been a loong time since I last posted on HBH…