Time to get serious about Programming, just have 2 questions

Hey all,

As you probably guessed from the noob-related title, I am a jack of all trades (if you can even call me that) and I have quite little knowledge about Programming. I can write simple HTML & CSS. I can dabble in Actionscript 2, and I have studied Phython for a little while.

However, I have set myself up with the subjects relevant to take Computer Programming at University when the opportunity arises, but I have a few questions about Programming and Hacking in general.

1. Is Python any good to learn? I'v heard for a range of different sources that Python is the language to start on, but it's just not interesting, I mean if I wanted to write out a list for it to print back to me, it's great, but for GUI more related stuff it's not too grand. Or maybe I'm not exploring it to it's full potential?. I would like to hear you thoughts on a beginner programming language..

2. Linux Linux = hackers paradise but I find it too deep for a beginner. I'v tried DreamLinux and I've tried Ubuntu, but I always resort back to Windows because I do like my GUI, my iTunes and Google Chrome. However I do want to start operating my computer through Command related methods. Is Ms-Dos still worth learning at this day and age on a windows machine? Or is it much more beneficial to spend my time learning how to operate Linux's terminal? I want to be able to start my machine up with a [kill explorer.exe] command and still use my computer as normal.

Basically any information about getting into a good computer understanding and environment to be able to start the foundations of good computer knowledge.

Please do not post if you don't have anything nice to contribute, please do not flame me, I want some serious answers and links to relevant sources if you have any. Thanks a lot everyone. :)

Telepathic.

Telepathic wrote:

1. Is Python any good to learn? I'v heard for a range of different sources that Python is the language to start on, but it's just not interesting, I mean if I wanted to write out a list for it to print back to me, it's great, but for GUI more related stuff it's not too grand. Or maybe I'm not exploring it to it's full potential?. I would like to hear you thoughts on a beginner programming language.. I like python. I dunno where you heard that it's not interesting.

2. Linux Linux = hackers paradise but I find it too deep for a beginner. I'v tried DreamLinux and I've tried Ubuntu, but I always resort back to Windows because I do like my GUI, my iTunes and Google Chrome. However I do want to start operating my computer through Command related methods. Is Ms-Dos still worth learning at this day and age on a windows machine? Or is it much more beneficial to spend my time learning how to operate Linux's terminal? I want to be able to start my machine up with a [kill explorer.exe] command and still use my computer as normal.

iTunes? Gak. Just install linux on a box and force yourself to use the command line. You'll get used to it.

Telepathic wrote:

2. Linux Linux = hackers paradise but I find it too deep for a beginner. I'v tried DreamLinux and I've tried Ubuntu, but I always resort back to Windows because I do like my GUI, my iTunes and Google Chrome. However I do want to start operating my computer through Command related methods. Is Ms-Dos still worth learning at this day and age on a windows machine? Or is it much more beneficial to spend my time learning how to operate Linux's terminal? I want to be able to start my machine up with a [kill explorer.exe] command and still use my computer as normal.

Linux indeed is a hackers paradise, but I think your definition of hacker and mine is completely different.

As I'm reading here, you don't necessarily "like" the Windows GUI more then the GUI of Linux you tried (I guess gnome or kde), but you trust the windows GUI more. You know how it works, what you can and can't do.

Think of yourself in the past, how did you learned all these explorer.exe knowledge. How did you learned what you can and can't do. This is the way that you'll have to learn Linux too. (or at least, your desktop environment).

And I think learning ms-dos isn't a bad thing, because most of the commands are still used when you run a command prompt. And getting used to a terminal never is a bad thing. Not for Windows and not for Linux.

And above all, don't stick to an OS **just for those two programs **. You aren't "tied" to them, you can do your shit without capitalistic iTunes and privacy intruding chrome. And don't come bullshit me with the "but I have an iPod" argument.

If you decide to get into Linux, it should be a bit more serious than just Ubuntu. Knowing how to use a live cd is always good, and Ubuntu is my favorite distro for a live cd. For actually learning about Linux, I think that gentoo is a great distro. There is a lot of configuration as well as documentation for configuring, and you're forced to get into it. Until you decide to get into Linux, I think that knowing how to use a live cd in case something goes wrong with Windows is all the Linux you need. Most software is written for windows anyways. Do one thing at a time, linux or programming.

Telepathic wrote: Hey all,

As you probably guessed from the noob-related title, I am a jack of all trades (if you can even call me that) and I have quite little knowledge about Programming. I can write simple HTML & CSS. I can dabble in Actionscript 2, and I have studied Phython for a little while.

However, I have set myself up with the subjects relevant to take Computer Programming at University when the opportunity arises, but I have a few questions about Programming and Hacking in general.

1. Is Python any good to learn? I'v heard for a range of different sources that Python is the language to start on, but it's just not interesting, I mean if I wanted to write out a list for it to print back to me, it's great, but for GUI more related stuff it's not too grand. Or maybe I'm not exploring it to it's full potential?. I would like to hear you thoughts on a beginner programming language..

2. Linux Linux = hackers paradise but I find it too deep for a beginner. I'v tried DreamLinux and I've tried Ubuntu, but I always resort back to Windows because I do like my GUI, my iTunes and Google Chrome. However I do want to start operating my computer through Command related methods. Is Ms-Dos still worth learning at this day and age on a windows machine? Or is it much more beneficial to spend my time learning how to operate Linux's terminal? I want to be able to start my machine up with a [kill explorer.exe] command and still use my computer as normal.

Basically any information about getting into a good computer understanding and environment to be able to start the foundations of good computer knowledge.

Please do not post if you don't have anything nice to contribute, please do not flame me, I want some serious answers and links to relevant sources if you have any. Thanks a lot everyone. :)

Telepathic.

Your not exploring pythons potential. It comes standard with Tkinter, a GUI lib. Also there is wxPython, PyQT, PYthonCard, and others. Once you want to move onto other languages, python can ease the way, JPython for java, or even getting to know pythons ctypes.

As for linux, install it on VMware or a VirtualBox and play around with it. Google deferent commands for the terminal, and most distros have python pre-installed.

techb wrote: Your not exploring pythons potential. It comes standard with Tkinter, a GUI lib. Also there is wxPython, PyQT, PYthonCard, and others. Once you want to move onto other languages, python can ease the way, JPython for java, or even getting to know pythons ctypes.

Techb's right, Python is a great language. I can understand where he might have heard that GUI comment, though. Being a scripting language, it's not exactly ideal to be running GUI's. It can more than handle the job fine, and you should definitely never avoid learning it because of that, but it is a very slow GUI compared to compiled languages.

As for Itunes and Chrome…. There is Google Chrome for Ubuntu, and Rythmbox is a much better alternative to Itunes, imho. Not sure why you're so attached to that. Not to mention that if you still want to keep Windows around, just dual boot. That way you can have both Windows and Linux on the same machine. :happy:

Also, when you say you "Do like your GUI", you do realize that linux machines can be entirely run without ever having to touch the command line now, right? Take Ubuntu for instance, it's pretty user friendly, just has a learning curve which throws most users off.

If you want to get serious about stuff, then just dive right in. There's plenty of people (like us) willing to help along the way.

maug wrote: If you decide to get into Linux, it should be a bit more serious than just Ubuntu. Knowing how to use a live cd is always good, and Ubuntu is my favorite distro for a live cd. For actually learning about Linux, I think that gentoo is a great distro. There is a lot of configuration as well as documentation for configuring, and you're forced to get into it. Until you decide to get into Linux, I think that knowing how to use a live cd in case something goes wrong with Windows is all the Linux you need. Most software is written for windows anyways. Do one thing at a time, linux or programming.

Whoa. Don't you think it's a little too drastic to learn Linux by installing gentoo? I think he can start off by Ubuntu if he wants to, and when he's confident enough he can move on to Fedora or Debian before jumping over to Gentoo. Gentoo might be easier to install these days, but it's still pretty daunting for a beginner.

fuser wrote: Whoa. Don't you think it's a little too drastic to learn Linux by installing gentoo? I think he can start off by Ubuntu if he wants to, and when he's confident enough he can move on to Fedora or Debian before jumping over to Gentoo. Gentoo might be easier to install these days, but it's still pretty daunting for a beginner.

I've got to agree with fuser there, if this guy finds Ubuntu has a steep learning curve then Gentoo is definitely not the best place to start out.

@ fuser and stealth It could be too much. Only one way to find out. If he gets stuck he can always go to the irc. My thinking on that was that rather than having a few experiences repeated a bunch of times with ubuntu, he could have lots of new experiences with gentoo. I know it's baptism by fire. But I know I didn't really learn anything about linux after 2 years of using mandriva and ubuntu.

One of the good things about gentoo though, is that you need to look at the learning resources available like the forum, online videos and tutorials, documentation, and man pages all the time. Before you get started even. Where as I think a lot of the intuitive distros almost never encourage users to only look at these resources. I didn't really learn anything about linux, other than it was out there, until I started reading the documentation for gentoo.

Telepathic wrote: However I do want to start operating my computer through Command related methods. Is Ms-Dos still worth learning at this day and age on a windows machine? Or is it much more beneficial to spend my time learning how to operate Linux's terminal? I want to be able to start my machine up with a [kill explorer.exe] command and still use my computer as normal.

Basically any information about getting into a good computer understanding and environment to be able to start the foundations of good computer knowledge.

command line is an essential skill pretty much anywhere you go. There are a lot of similarities between dos and unix command line interfaces (CLI), so you will not be wasting your time by learning one instead of the other when you start out.