DoS and name servers
Would it be possible to DoS most of the internet name servers causing anyone who didn't know what an IP was to lose access to all websites? I know it sounds profound and quite crazy, but think about it. If we had enough computers to take out every well known name server, then nothing would work.. Or is there a local DNS that would cache it until everything is up and running again? Not proposing anything, just want to hear everyones thoughts on the subject… And please don't try to lecture me on anything, because thats not what I'm looking for. Just your opinion and imagination.
shabouwcaw wrote: ive heard of people using botnets to take down lots of nameservers at simultaneously, but not all of them..
you'd need a lot of computers…
Or a code/program that will send it's self out to different computers/servers etc etc automatically. It doesn't even have to be automatic, you just need to trick lots of people/computers/servers into running the same code at the same time, it's just easier if your code has a built in mechanism to distribute it's self. Hence the term bot :p
shabouwcaw wrote: i know what a botnet is…
i meant you'd need alot of computers in the botnet.
Lol I'd hate to say this, but it's easy to distribute them. Try IRC warez chats…lol. P2P file sharing programs and torrents work well too. The tricky part is getting your code to not look malicious to virus scanning programs :p
but to take out every single nameserver on the internet?
you would need a lot of computers.
spam processing using a botnet, yes. DDoS on a couple of sites, yes. But every single nameserver?
there is a set of backbone routers, if im not mistaken, so if you could take them down you would screw stuff up.. but EVERY single nameserver?
think about it.
I never proposed anything, and you're right.. It hasn't been done, but it could be. And doing something like that and actually succeeding in its entirely would be more than amazing. I never said I was going to do it, but actually seeing someone do it in the future, in my opinion, would be legendary. I just wanted to hear everyones thoughts on the subject and I have what I wanted. So thank you everyone.
shabouwcaw wrote: but to take out every single nameserver on the internet?
you would need a lot of computers.
spam processing using a botnet, yes. DDoS on a couple of sites, yes. But every single nameserver?
there is a set of backbone routers, if im not mistaken, so if you could take them down you would screw stuff up.. but EVERY single nameserver?
think about it.
Lol, this is kinda getting me thinking. I mean, I know you could set up a botnet to do like a multidimensional array, where it continues to make bots on every host it's on at a set time and fires all the dimensions off at the same time in a loop, if you could get something like that on a massive amount of computers to do it all at a set time, you might be able to do some sort of damage. But that would take insanely skilled coding skills so that the host wouldn't just instantly crash as it continued creating dimensions or layers. Idk it would take something pretty massive, you actually would probably need to do one for each server, and each one would have to be on a massive scale like I've described to notice anything at all.
slpctrl wrote: Or a code/program that will send it's self out to different computers/servers etc etc automatically. It doesn't even have to be automatic, you just need to trick lots of people/computers/servers into running the same code at the same time, it's just easier if your code has a built in mechanism to distribute it's self. Hence the term bot :p
Would be called DDoS then. :p
it has been tried by people far better than you will likely ever be, don't bother thinking about it.
i dont want to do it, its the most retarded piece of conjecture i have ever heard of. but its IS an interesting mental exercise. its called thinking and i suggest you try it sometime.
also how exactly do you know how good i am? i could be on the verge of discovering AI and your only perspective is how many points ive got on the challanges and what i post in the forums. im obviously not, but thats not the point, your judging me and you dont even know me, the irony being, im now judging you by that fact.
as for not thinking about things like this, people are told everyday what they can and cannot think about, the beauty of the internet is i can think, post and do WHATEVER i damn well please. i may get caught, if its illegal but i can still do it, and if your good enough you wont get caught.
Well I definitely see it as a major and glamorous achievement. You have your own opinion and thats fine, I'm not going to say that you're wrong and that everyone agrees with you. I just like to imagine it, and being able to create something that powerful and extreme is more than amazing to me. I may not be the on who does it, nor do I think I'm even going to try, but I will definitely praise anyone who could pull it off by far. You said so yourself that it seems almost impossible, so then why are you getting so upset? If you don't like the discussion, then you don't have to participate in it. You sit there and knock peoples skills when you yourself may just be some punk script-kiddie who believes he's a know-it-all. You should think before you type, you don't seem that smart in my opinion. If you believe that someone should be shot in the head for thinking about it, then please give more details. You're like the kid who goes on game forums and says this sucks and nothing else.. Just some thought, sorry it's so long.
haha, do you make these quotes up or are they original? They're pretty good, but you need to realize that these are not my achievements nor do I think they ever will be. I brought up the topic for opinions and discussion, these quotes don't seem to be helping. It's like saying some decisions are bad and can hurt people while some decisions are good and can help people. You are telling us things we already know, just in different words.
oo la la.. Whenever I hear someone calling names like "punk script kiddie," I always wonder if there is anything about them selves in that statement. At the very least it's something like their "shadow."
I have heard of people making those grandiose plans. l0pht said they could take out the internet in half an hour (I belive them), LOD took out the phone network for LA, etc. But taking out the entire phone network certainly would not be fun for the hart attack victim trying to call 911. And taking out the internet would not be fun for the fucking thousands that would lose their jobs. Causing a depression wouldn’t be too fun either. Think I basically said what spy ware just said. Was this a plan for getting people to like you something?
You can never target the primus (sp?) that you can not see. Do anything you want, but when you are destructive, you just have to know who is being targeted.
spyware you must read some load of "positive thinking" books..
yes, taking down the internet is a load of crap, and anyone who wishes to destroy probably mankinds greatest creation in the last 1000 years is to be stopped, but it doesnt take away from the fact that its a fun thing to imagine doing. has no one here honestly thought about theories? has no one honestly not thought "what would i do with a botnet?"…
taking down every nameserver is probably the domain of bad thriller novels full of conspiracy etc. but its still an interesting and challenging thought exercise.. which is what i thought this site was about. providing interesting and challenging thought exercises
I didn't say it wasn't possible, really. It's possible. It's also quite easy. You would need a few tiger teams on Alpha locations. Stop thinking hacks, start thinking pulling out the plug. It's easier to disable a serverNET physically rather than the hacking alternative. You want to disable the Internet? Shatter it's fundamentals, the locations of them are well-known.
Go for it. You need a crew of +/- 400 people, spread across the globe. They need skills, tools, the works.
That's my thought.
I type what I think, and as far as people liking me? I could care less. Dude, if you haven't realized, we are on the computer. Anyway I brought this up as a hypothetical situation. I DON'T EXPECT ANYONE TO ACTUALLY ATTEMPT IT. Second, If it were to ever happen, what makes you think it would last for a long period of time? It would last maybe 5-10 minutes. Wow, you really need to lighten up. And another thing, you don't know who is on here, you don't know their skills, so yes I'm saying that their are script kiddies in here. Am I? No I'm not, did I used to be? Yes. I was until I realized I wasn't learning anything from it. and that was a few years ago. So back to the original topic, I don't see anything destructive about it. Ok, so the infected part of the internet goes down for a little bit. Not forever. Shit happens, what doesn't die recovers.
jbjoker wrote: blahblahblah.
Look, buddy. This isn't a question of my skill vs. anyone elses.
This is a question of whether you're a big enough assfuck to disable a critical portion of the world's functionality.
We're not talking a bunch of computer's down, oh ha-ha, this is so fucking funny, look what we did, tee-hee.
If you do that, people will fucking die. Critical communication will be crippled. Some medical personnel won't be able to properly communicate.
If your personal morality can handle the death of innocents, and you can gather a group of enough people who feel the same way, that's cool. Go ahead. Fucking do it.
people survived without the internet, and could do so again.. dont be so dramatic. the non-existence of the internet would be a small blip, but in the long term it would be overcome. dont underestimate human ingenuity.
and to spyware, merely plugging out some 400 servers and routers wouldnt do a lot of damage. the internet is a distributed network, other routers would continue to pass the packets along. The servers would be a major hit, but it would also be impossible to coordinate a mass of break-ins to hundreds of server farms.
shabouwcaw wrote: people survived without the internet, and could do so again.. dont be so dramatic. the non-existence of the internet would be a small blip, but in the long term it would be overcome.
So what about the short term? What about the millions that are affected in the initial hit?
Your first sentence shows your ignorance about the critical role of DNS in today's internet.
Look, I hate whenever this topic comes up (which I will repeat to the OP, is NOT anything new or "profound"), because everyone always talks real big about it, but no one ever actually DOES it.
Just a simple question, if you took down a DNS server with a DoS, wouldn't it kill your internet also? If thats the case, it would then stop your DoS, in turn making it easy to recover. The only downside would be if the DoS was persistent and didn't die after no internet connection is detected.
Just a question. Kinda crossed my mind when I thought about it.
-Bl4ckC4t
jbjoker wrote: The internet technically wouldn't go down, you could still use the IP address to access the website you choose. And how can millions die within 10 minutes from the internet going down? You seriously must be retarded, either that or there is something I'm missing.
What you're missing: Most of the population doesn't have a fucking clue what an IP address is.
In my opinion, if we don't think of it they will, and by 'they' I mean any body a whole lot less friendly than us. Isn't that a lot of what this site is about, that understanding security and hacking in general is the only way to make secure programs, servers and websites? So it's better to talk about it now, and fix potential problems, than to remain silent until it happens.
For a distributed DoS attack, it seems very unlikely that even the backbone servers could be disabled. It's not as hard as you think to blacklist ips that are making absurd amounts of traffic. Spoofed ip's can help here, but still…
But for a critical level, zero day DoS exploit, directly against the main servers… Let's just say I believe l0pht when they said half an hour.